Different amp EQ types

  • A number of people have been asking for something like this for a long while. It sounds like a great idea in theory but it isn’t that simple in practice. Tone stacks are highly interactive beasts where turning the treble control also has an effect on the middle and bass frequencies. Not only does each control affect each of the others but they also affect the gain level in many cases. Therefore, modelling differently tone circuits in an amp model like Helix of Axe is manageable but with a profile it may be a totally different animal. Only the Kemper team know whether it is achievable but they are certainly aware of the desire for it from many users. I have to confess I’m not one of them. i actually like the way the current eq behaves in a predictable manner unlike most amps but that’s just my view other opinions are equally valid.

  • As I've said before, I see it the same way, Alan.


    Not only is the Kemper's Stack-EQ behaviour predictable and therefore handy to have across-the-board, but IMHO it's transparent-enough to not interfere with a given amp's tonal signature. IOW, the "sameness" Greg fears it may impart onto different amps that should sound "different" isn't something I feel is a valid concern.


    If the EQ had a distinctive sound, sure, I'd agree, but to my ears, it's "transparent", only boosting or cutting what's already-there in an "unobtrusive" way - no freaky peaks and dips, no obvious overshoot such as what we hear in classic "flavour" analogue EQ's, just straight-up chiselling and IMHO just what we need.


    Another way of looking at it is to ask one's self how often one hears complaints about it here.

    Answer: Practically-never.

  • I understand this , and is why I specifically added the word presets , so the the parameters of the existing eq can be more quickly changed

    most tube amp eq is passive cut only and highly interactive, three Shelves basically [ and yes less cut , more gain all controls at 10 least gain loss]

    currently I choose profiles that I like as is or as close as I can, so I don't have to adjust much because the more or farther you adjust, the less

    real it sounds. if they want it to be a more " playable " device that would help me !

    If I need or want to eq it later there's far better outboard eq's to use , Sometimes there is an element of " The Emperor's new clothes "

    where people say , well all the pro's use it , it must be good , as good as they could make it at the time ?


    it's not a sameness I fear , it's a sameness I hear ! [ I paid allot of money for mine ] and again presets could allow you to have your consistent

    [ persistent ] eq and give others options

  • I use the EQ at will, and TBH just care about the final results.
    I tend to think of it for what it is, that is a Studio, 3-band graphic EQ (plus Presence).


    I must be missing something from the OP, because when working with a linear cab (and not a guitar cab) I hear no "sameness" in different profiles, unless they are clean, and use the same (the profiled one) cab and mic. If they sound the same,of course, it's because the profiled rigs sounded the same.


    So if I apply a linear filter (KPA's EQ) to differently-sounding profiles how can I get any "sameness"? 8|

    Anyway, you might know that the EQ on the KPA can be placed pre- or post-amp; this makes a huge difference, specially on the distorted tones.


    HTH :)

    Still chasing a worthy one :/

  • IMHO it's transparent-enough to not interfere with a given amp's tonal signature. IOW, the "sameness" Greg fears it may impart onto different amps that should sound "different" isn't something I feel is a valid concern.


    If the EQ had a distinctive sound, sure, I'd agree, but to my ears, it's "transparent", only boosting or cutting what's already-there in an "unobtrusive" way - no freaky peaks and dips, no obvious overshoot such as what we hear in classic "flavour" analogue EQ's, just straight-up chiselling and IMHO just what we need.

    So if I apply a linear filter (KPA's EQ) to differently-sounding profiles how can I get any "sameness"? 8|

    This is exactly what I'm saying, pippopluto, however when I said this the OP said:

    it's not a sameness I fear , it's a sameness I hear !

    Greg's hearing something, obviously. :/

  • Gregg, you definitely shouldn’t be hearing any sameness 8 don’t dispute that you hear it though). How are you monitoring? FRFR, Studio Monitors, headphones or guitar cab?


    Do you have a single cab locked in the stack section?


    The speaker is more than 50% of the sound so if you are using the same cab (either in the KPA or an external guitar cab) that would account for hearing a “sameness”.

  • Not getting into the rest of the discussion, but I want to point out that the Kemper already has EQ presets for a lot of classic amps. Just long-press the EQ button, then turn the Browse knob to see the list. They're coded in the usual way to avoid trademark infringement ("Fan" = Fender, "Mars" = Marshall etc.).

  • Robrecht, I just tried that but they aren't showing for me. OS6 and reloaded Factory Presets just make sure. I do sort of remember seeing something previously (although I never felt the need to try them out) but they don't seem to be there anymore.

    Ha! Strange. I'm still on 5.7xxx. I remember first noticing those presets a long time ago, so they've been around for lots of OS versions. I wonder if there's a way to get them if you don't have them.

  • Not getting into the rest of the discussion, but I want to point out that the Kemper already has EQ presets for a lot of classic amps. Just long-press the EQ button, then turn the Browse knob to see the list. They're coded in the usual way to avoid trademark infringement ("Fan" = Fender, "Mars" = Marshall etc.).

    Those are handy, but of course this is not what we are discussing here: the OP (and many of us of course) is after the stack to respond like the original amps, not after an EQ setting ;)



    This is exactly what I'm saying

    Yep MM, responding to the OP ;)


    however when I said this the OP said

    Yep, I am following ;)


    pippoloto

    ... now this is nice, actually X)

    Still chasing a worthy one :/

  • It really depends on the goal here....to fully synthesise the profiled amp or get good sounds.


    For me, the eq is not useless because its not interactive, its just different. I would argue that the original amps weren't designed to do this, its a by product of the design and arguably a flaw ( although I suppose you could say distortion is also a flaw). By non interactivity, its more predictable to get your desired effect...add more treble to...add more treble, not add more treble to also cut some bass and add some more gain..


    The eq section and interactivitiy of a profile does not fully mimic the amp as we know and I have previously suggested that multi profiling might help or some mapping parameters, but its complex and is it really worth it?


    To me it would be cool but not essential..I've got enough tonal variation to worry about!


    I think the main benefit is to answer the criticism you see from non KPA users as a way to pull it down rather than a real issue " profiling isn't as a good as moddelling becuase you have to change profile for any changes to gain, eq and volume to stay true to the amp"..

  • Those are handy, but of course this is not what we are discussing here: the OP (and many of us of course) is after the stack to respond like the original amps, not after an EQ setting ;)

    There was some talk a long time ago about implementing that, I have no idea what came from it!


    (From the first post in this thread, I did get the impression Greg was asking about simple presets for the existing EQ, just as shortcuts to quickly get in the ballpark of a certain sound image. Maybe it's a semantics thing: I think of "presets" as nothing deeper than pre-saved combinations of certain settings...)

  • I'm not sure that the Kemper amp ever set out to be a modeller in this way. The point was to take a snapshot of an amp with its eq setting, which makes the profile and this is a strength. You simply end up playing more often instead of programming the unit.


    The eq currently is predictable and very useful to tailor a sound that needs attenuating, almost like an engineer making adjustments on a console. If the sound is not what you want, it is time to make or select a new profile. It would be a different product and be joining the pack with more modelling options from where I see it.

    Karl


    Kemper Rack OS 9.0.5 - Mac OS X 12.6.7

  • The eq currently is predictable and very useful to tailor a sound that needs attenuating, almost like an engineer making adjustments on a console.

    I think that's a great analogy! Its still valid to change the sound this way but does not mimic fully the amp...and that's OK.