Another would-be profiler experiencing difficulties with profile accuracy

How high was you master volume set?

Quote from nightlight

For a while I was thinking that perhaps the software preamp I was using was the issue, but that doesn't seem right.

exactly what do you mean with "software preamp" - a plugin?

I would definitely profile without it - with modeled hardware you never know if it follows analog reality and it can have a negative impact on the Profile.

Or even when it is a 'good' model, it can add compression/saturation to the signal which will again have a negative impact on the Profile.

From my experience in the other thread (which I think still isn't over) :

Things I have learned thus far.

Background noise is the enemy of high end. Crank the amp to solve this, the difference between amp and background will be greater and the result will be that you don't lose as much treble. I think this is because the Kemper see's background noise as frequencies to ignore/notch out, I think only a ML algorithm would be able to eliminate it and extract audio without eliminating the frequencies. Fingers crossed things improve in the future because that initial chime and fret noise really suffers due to this. Anyhow when you make the amp louder the relative volume of the background noise decreases and the problem is (almost) solved.

Mic level is more important than you think. The previous solution leads to the next problem. Your mic will send a signal that's way too hot to the Kemper when the amp is at appropriate volume. The Kemper will literally tell you that the signal is causing it to clip. The solution is to put something in the line to control the mic volume and bring it back to "Mic line" levels (which apparently is a lot quieter than normal line levels). For me I plugged the mic into one of the spare inputs on my audio interface, then using it's mixer routed it back out to one of the spare outputs and then plugged that into the Kemper. That way I was able to use the mixer built into my interface to reduce the volume. You could also just use any mic pre-amp as they all seem to come with a volume control. You should try to match on the first page of the Profiling mode, as you can watch the output LED while switching between Kemper and Mic signals and also listen to both as well as then doing minor fine tuning adjustment using the level control (right most dial under the screen) on the Kemper.

Reverb radically alters the frequency response. The Kemper doesn't capture your room sadly as an IR with a little convolution reverb module (I wish it did as it would solve this last one), but I've found that listening very closely and building a reverb that matches the sound of your room as closely as possible will make a *huge* difference to the profiled sound. I cannot emphasize enough about this one because you might think that a close mic'd amp has no reverb... you're wrong. I found raw profiles sound really dead and lackluster in an almost unidentifiable way, but get a good reverb on there and you can find complexity and missing frequencies pop back out at you. It's crazy what a difference this can make to a profile and it's almost universally overlooked.

Per could you make an IR of your own room and add that to the signal chain?

Wheresthedug - Not onboard the Kemper itself, the IR convertor basically grabs a frequency response curve only from the IR you give it for the cab so no time based effect (reverb).

However in DAW, yeah it should be possible, I don't have the software for it but I remember that somewhere in logic there's a white noise generator so it's just a matter of doing it. After all, an IR file is just an audio file and every DAW has a convolution reverb these days. I was just lazy and actually found a nice convolution that's very close to my room in Reason, the preset is called "Studio" of all things, which I think is hilarious as my room is basically this tiled floor office space that's about as far away from a studio as you can possibly get, but it sounds pretty close.

On the Kemper I've tried to make a verb that's at least somewhat close but I think both because the reverbs have a minimum pre-delay that's higher than zero and because of their sonic signature I'm not able to really get it right.

I'd really like it to be a part of the profile itself, especially given what a difference it makes. And also just think about how many profiles are made in some of the best sounding rooms in the world. Losing that almost makes me want to cry.

Yes, O was thinking of doing it in Logic or your DAW or choice rather than the KPA itself.

I do not have a powered profiler. Even if I did for both live and studio use accuracy and good DI sound is more important than how you monitor (after all you don't mic up a cab that the Kemper is playing through).

The reverb is far more critical than you may imagine, most people think reverb is just an effect at layer on a sound, something to push a sound further back in a mix or add emotional depth with cathedral and spring style verbs, something to add space or a gentle sheen and some cohesion to a mix with a plate verb, but it's far more than that, it dictates the frequency response over time for a sound. It's very much a part of the signature of a guitar sound.

The sum total or your room sound when you record is background noise (hums, distant sounds etc), and how sound travels in the space which comes to you as reverberations and sympathetic ringing noises, it's also not coincidentally the sum total of your guitar cabinet's sound, that's why different cabs retain their signatures even when you change the speaker in them.

You'd be surprised at just how much of the sound of your room is picked up by your mic's even if they're highly directional and pressed right up against the mesh. You can test this out simply by moving your amp around in different spaces and recording it, or even piling on the blankets around your mic and speaker (be careful not to block ventilation at the back of the amp) lifting it up away from the floor. The sound is quite markedly different. An even easier approach is just to slap on some different convolution verbs on a recorded track in your DAW, the differences are not subtle.

When it comes to the reverb I'm speaking from experience too. My first attempts at profiling years ago were thwarted by room sound, Christoph himself pointed this out to me. In this last set of sessions when I've applied a verb in DAW it's really made a good difference and improvement too. It's not just theoretical, but practical, give it a try, you may like the results.

I was really surprised how big an impact the room has even on close miced guitars when I watched this recently

Quote from Per

However in DAW, yeah it should be possible, I don't have the software for it but I remember that somewhere in logic there's a white noise generator so it's just a matter of doing it.

Just buy a packet of party balloons and record the pops (with tails) in your favourite mic positions and distances from-source in your room, Per. If you have a starter's pistol you could use that too. The idea is to produce a broadband spike.

Trim the resulting audio files to begin as closely to the pops as possible and fade the very ends of the tails to eliminate clicks. Done.

These should work in most convo-'verb plugins.