Profiler Stage Introduction Thread

  • so could there be sound diff between "old" and "new" Hardware ?

    did they change maybe the DA converters too ?


    Probably no sound difference (or at least nothing that a "normal" person would be able to detect), but this is the kind of thing that people will dedicate a significant amount of time arguing about on the gear forums.

  • so could there be sound diff between "old" and "new" Hardware ?

    did they change maybe the DA converters too ?

    Even if they changed the A/D and D/A convertors due to economic / technological advances, those in the existing hardware are so good nobody'd be able to hear any differences anyway.


    EDIT:

    As Frodebro suggested 'though, that won't stop folks arguing about it. :D

  • My thought

    I personally use a lots these unique feature you are listing (especially DLY-REV spillover) and I also like so much dual amp feature. Let's say, I believe, in percentage, I would use for sure more the actual futures with serial settings than dual amp, to be honest...


    But ... Dual Amp allow great and infinite creative possibilities (many of us would use and experimenti with it), so, to start, it could be a fantastic addition just only a "dual stack feature" without missing the other ones you listed.

    So, to be more precise: today all the chain is mono till the stack included, then from slot X start a stereo configuration. Let's think that the stereo mode start then from the stack itself... "Dual Stack" feature would allow to run a double stack A & B in parallel with just two additional parameters: a Blend parameter that goes from 'only stack A' to 'only Stack B' and a Stereo/Mono parameter that goes from 'Stack A fully Left Panned & Stack B fully Right Panned' to 'Mono Merged Stack A&B'. All the rest of the signal chain would remains exactly like today. So, not a full flexible parallel chain, but the most important thing of a parallel chain: two increbible Kemper Amp Profiles together! I'm sure this could make happy more than 90% of the "parallel chain users" ... like a dream ;-)


  • Interesting to note, Mr CK. But given that the Kemper now has the ability for stereo monitor, I think you should really consider dual amping and parallel effects routing in the next version of the Kemper.


    More complex routing would also be welcome. It might seem like overkill, but for example, the ability to have a parallel path where one amp is pushed by an OD, while the other isn't, but has some modulation after the cab section would be great.


    I'm sure you can also come up with ways to ensure that whatever features that can be set globally are retained.


    I run two amps in my analog rig a lot of the time in a W/D config, or sometimes WDW. Being able to do that with one Kemper would be neat.

  • But ... Dual Amp allow great and infinite creative possibilities (many of us would use and experimenti with it), so, to start, it could be a fantastic addition just only a "dual stack feature" without missing the other ones you listed.

    So, to be more precise: today all the chain is mono till the stack included, then from slot X start a stereo configuration. Let's think that the stereo mode start then from the stack itself... "Dual Stack" feature would allow to run a double stack A & B in parallel with just two additional parameters: a Blend parameter that goes from 'only stack A' to 'only Stack B' and a Stereo/Mono parameter that goes from 'Stack A fully Left Panned & Stack B fully Right Panned' to 'Mono Merged Stack A&B'. All the rest of the signal chain would remains exactly like today. So, not a full flexible parallel chain, but the most important thing of a parallel chain: two increbible Kemper Amp Profiles together! I'm sure this could make happy more than 90% of the "parallel chain users" ... like a dream ;-)

    I personally don't get the hype at all about dual-amp. Same signal through 2 amps is not how you make guitar wider in a mix. I'm actually genuinely curious as I might have been missing something about this but in your example of "Stack A and B panned on either side", I'm not sure when that could ever be favorable over a proper double tracking panned on each side. If you really want the exact same track with two amps, just re-amp the DI track with a different amp... If I want a different kind of definition or accentuate different frequencies, it's probably because I haven't chosen the right amp/eq/settings to begin with. Seems to me just like a trendy feature that make it sounds like all of a sudden, your guitar will sound better because 2 amps must mean bigger/better tone...


    Edit: Sorry about going off the topic of this thread!!

  • I personally don't get the hype at all about dual-amp. Same signal through 2 amps is not how you make guitar wider in a mix. I'm actually genuinely curious as I might have been missing something about this but in your example of "Stack A and B panned on either side", I'm not sure when that could ever be favorable over a proper double tracking panned on each side. If you really want the exact same track with two amps, just re-amp the DI track with a different amp... If I want a different kind of definition or accentuate different frequencies, it's probably because I haven't chosen the right amp/eq/settings to begin with. Seems to me just like a trendy feature that make it sounds like all of a sudden, your guitar will sound better because 2 amps must mean bigger/better tone...

    Exactly. People often confuse multi amping with double tracking.

  • Rather than all the speculation and guess work, is there a simple explanation between the differences of the Stage functionality and the current KPA.


    That would answer a lot of the comments, as flyingheelhook mentioned a few posts ago?


    Is someone going to open a new thread on Dual amps as CK is ( as usual) listening!!!! Our chance to feed in!

  • Mr. Kemper, I think I understand what you are saying, when you specify doing this on a single Kemper. But two Kempers in parallel would be able to do dual amp and/or effects routing. The only potential issue I see would be some sort of phase issue between the two Kempers. I note that the Stage can be set as a slave when used with S/PDIF I/O. If you used S/PDIF to connect a Rack or Toaster (set as master) to a Stage (set as slave), would potential phase issues be eliminated?


    And of course with two Kempers, a dual output guitar can have a set of parallel effects.


    Phase would not be a problem.


    But I think a dual (parallel) full Rig topology would not meet the requirements of most users that want to run dual amping, because you want to plug both amps into the same studio effects most of the time.

    Am I right?

  • @CK- yes exactly: create a stereo mix of the two amp stacks and run them through the Stereo FX blocks as a stereo mix. No need to duplicate delays and reverbs etc. Users could blend the amp stacks 50% into each channel or hard right and left or anything in between.

    I could imagine some would like the option to surgically Eq each amp separately so a stereo version of the parametric Eq could be handy if DSP permits.

  • Thanks for the reply Mr. Kemper.


    I don't use hardware effects at this point. I use Universal Audio Apollos running UAD plugins. I can easily set up each of two Kempers with the same effects. So that is not an issue for me.


    The Apollos have more than enough DSP to handle the plugins with near zero latency. And the plugins on the UAD platform are world class quality. They are almost indistinguishable from the hardware they model.


    I also plan to run stereo and hexaphonic guitar soon. I am going to modify my Hamer Duotone. It will soon have a Cycfi Nu2 Multi (hexaphonic) pickup and two Fluence Open Core classic humbuckers wired in stereo. The Fluence pickups each have three voices, which I will be able to select independently.


    I want a parallel path for the Fluence pickups wired in stereo. In some cases I will be using both paths with the same effects. In some cases I will use different effects on each path.


    The Cycfi hex pickup will be multed, sent dry to six separate tracks in Logic, and also mixed to stereo. The stereo signal may go through the two Kempers or into stereo Apollo Unison guitar amp sims.


    Later I can manipulate the dry hex signals in all sorts of creative ways. Since this use case doesn't require real time output, I can experiment to my heart's content in my studio.

  • AES/EBU is basically the same as the SPDIF protocol with more robust connectors (XLR vs RCA) and support for longer cable runs because it uses balanced lines. It is nothing like the added complexity of a built in USB audio interface. If SPDIF hardware is in place in the KPA, it is simply a different routing of that electric signal - like the difference between unbalance TS outputs and XLR balanced outputs for audio.


    The advantage of AES/EBU for something like the KP Stage is the connectors won't be so prone to coming off like RCA ones do AND you can run your digital output 10 or 20 meters or whatever you need to connect to your interface or digital mixer or whatever. My Fireface UFX takes AES/EBU inputs and I have to run converter cables to get the KPA digital signal in.

    Professional Studio Grade as well as Pro Live Reinforcement equipment uses AES/EBU

    SPDIF is for domestic use

  • Professional Studio Grade as well as Pro Live Reinforcement equipment uses AES/EBU

    Only for single channel (mono) and dual channel (stereo) audio.

    With the total number of 7 audio inputs and 8 audio outputs, the digital interface that comes to mind first would be something like ADAT as long as we stay at 44.1 or 48kHz. Higher sample rates would require dual ADAT. But what I'm trying to say: The Profiler is a multi-channel device and would benefit from a multi-channel digital audio interface. And this is basically the problem. Which one? MADI? Dante? AVB? Ravenna/AES67? AES50?

    There's so many different technologies/protocols and it would be impossible to pick one that fits all. And either of them significantly adds to the cost. So probably the way to go will be ADAT or dual ADAT because it's pretty easy to add it into an existing digital (studio) infrastructure ... and its ports take very little space (as opposed to e.g. 4 AES/EBU XLR Inputs + 4 AES/EBU XLR Outputs)

  • Phase would not be a problem.


    But I think a dual (parallel) full Rig topology would not meet the requirements of most users that want to run dual amping, because you want to plug both amps into the same studio effects most of the time.

    Am I right?

    That’s right. I guess this started it because some artists use that setup live for example JMayer blending a TwoRock,Dumble,Fender as a single amp, JBonamassa, Josh Smith, etc. that’s expensive with real amps, so some users would like to experiment that with digital.


    I’ve seen some Profilers offering amp blends, too.


    It’s a nice to have but not a core feature like new drives/fuzzes or other top in the feature request list. Maybe the KP signal flow makes this feature more difficult to implement, but if there is an option to convert rigs into stomps it may help?

  • ckemper Did I understand correctly that its the current topology that restricts and therefore there would be a trade off implementing dual amps with the current architecture?


    If so, as a temp measure could this be switchable...in other words, instead of trying to achieve both options, at least the ability to choose one or another? It might not be possible or even answer everyone's request but might be a halfway house until a Kemper 2?


    I confess most of this discussion is above me though. I have no need for dual amps in a regular context but recognise others do.