Difficulty Dialing a Distortion Tone

  • Hello all!


    Finally traded in my orange rockerverb for a Kemper. I've heard other bands playing with them and I love the diversity I was hearing from the amp. And honestly the tone sounded great as well! Now that I've powered it on and messed with it over the last 6 months, I have been having a decent amount of difficulty dialing a distortion tone. We're about to go in to record and was thinking its time to get this thing dialed in. I've looked at other threads here and followed the directions, but nothing seems to work. I have the powered version of this amp (not sure if that matters). I love the clean ambient tones I can bring out but high gain has been so rough! Don't get me wrong I still love the thing but I figure there has got to be something I'm doing wrong or maybe its just my ear. I've boughten several packs but still having the same issue. It actually does sound amazing through my Mission 1-P PA Cab but not direct which is where it matters the most for our setup.


    I uploaded some samples below I recorded today to my interface for reference. Let me know your thoughts! Maybe this is something really easy or maybe I'm just crazy, who knows.


    Distortion Tone

    https://vocaroo.com/i/s1t9exmJ0JgX


    Clean Tone

    https://vocaroo.com/i/s0vObbZIzDsU

  • Hi


    My first post on this eminent forum :)


    What pickup do you have, for me it sounds a bit muddy. Try to download Tonejunkies tree free Marshall-profiles. They sounds great for that type of sound. I always use an analog drive and a clean boost before Kemper. And try to reduce the gain on the Kemper and take back the gain with your pedals.

    Edited once, last by Konding ().

  • The pickups are no problem here. You have too much distortion on that sound clip. Use profiles with less distortion. Most of the best distorted sounds we love from records use less distortion than one might think. And with less distortion it sounds bigger.

    Think for yourself, or others will think for you wihout thinking of you

    Henry David Thoreau


  • Hey man, seems like a bit too much distortion going on there. Try a different profile, this one sounded a bit muddy.


    Also, just a suggestion: instead of just running a solo clip down the middle in isolation, to test how a recording might sound like in a mix, double track and then pan left and right.


    Soloed guitars run down the middle almost always sound like yours, though I do think you should back down on the distortion a bit.

  • Thanks all! I'll give this a shot and post on here my results.


    Pickup wise I have a bk warpig in the bridge and bk hsp 90 in the neck on a les paul standard.

  • 21.5 kOhm and bass heavy - this kind of pickup isn't exactly middle of the road.


    Increase Definition, and this might actually be one of the few cases where a setting other than '0' for Distortion Sense might be beneficial.


    less gain - because the pickup is super hot

    more Definition, because the pickup is dark, which is to be expected with this much output

    possibly lower Distortion Sense to make gainy Profiles globally respond better to this pickup


  • I actually had the pickup wrong on this guitar. It is a lace drop & gain in the bridge. Worked great on my orange with more gainy tones. I retracked that one with about 4 notches less gain.


    https://vocaroo.com/i/s0EcnsxBAD7d



    I rerecorded with no presets changed with the below track. It is from the lee malia pack with the orange mk100 ocd lead profile. No pedals activated.


    https://vocaroo.com/i/s0DfJJLT5YBL



    I left the gain steady on the lee malia profile.


    ---


    Newbie question here, but when you say definition, do you mean bring in more presence? If not, where does one adjust definition on a kemper?


    Likewise with the distortion sense, where would I find that.


    Apologies in advanced for the newbie question, really just trying to configure how this thing works! The other guitarist I work with has a ax8 and it sounds great and I know I can get this thing rocking if I can just learn a bit more on it! Any insight you have is awesome.

  • From the Manual:

    Stack Section

    The stack section is the heart of the PROFILER. It represents the raw virtual guitar amplifier and guitar cabinet as defined by the PROFILE. Every PROFILE is represented by the three modules that make up the stack section.

    Amplifier

    The AMPLIFIER button calls up a list of parameters that allow you to change the character of the Amplifier PROFILE in numerous ways using the soft knobs. ✓ A dedicated tutorial video explaining the amplifier module in the stack section can be found at: http://www.kemper-amps.com/video

     Definition

    The “Definition” parameter controls the characteristic fingerprint of the preamp. The PROFILING process automatically sets “Definition” to a value that represents the reference amp. You could, for example, use it to modernize the PROFILE of a vintage amp without having to use additional effects. Alternatively, start with a PROFILE of a modern tube amp, and use “Definition” to give it a more vintage sound when driven into distortion. You can also use “Definition” to align the sound of your guitar to the sound of your amp, if required. Don’t be afraid to keep experimenting until you get the balance that sounds best to you.

    Vintage amps distort the lower harmonics in the guitar signal which gives them their bluesy sound. These amps were originally designed to deliver a clean sound, so if you want a creamy distortion, these amps need to be driven by a typical transistor-based device like a treble booster. Modern tube amps use a different approach, in which the higher overtones of the guitar strings are the driving force for the distorted sound. The expensive boutique amps take this concept one step further, by providing an extreme level of top-end frequencies and a large dynamic range. The

    Stack Section 138


    distortion has a sparkling quality to it and preserves every nuance of the strings and pickups. Together with the characteristics of the actual speaker, the individual distortion behavior creates the fingerprint that identifies the amplifier.

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  • Mud and Dick already answered your Definition question, so...

    Likewise with the distortion sense, where would I find that.

    Input section - top-left of front panel. Press the button above the noise-gate knob.


    The manual describes it thusly:


    Distortion Sens


    Distortion Sens should normally stay at zero (middle) position. Every Rig will react as if you had connected your guitar to the original amplifier.


    If you feel that your guitar tends to drive the distortion too hot (or too soft) for most of your Rigs, then calibrate your guitar by adjusting Distortion Sens accordingly.

  • Yeah, it sounds pants I aint going to lie. Heard better from a POD back in '04.

    I've had a long journey getting a good distortion tone.
    For me, it was a TopJimi profile which sorted me out, the Marshall Jubilee. However, I don't play as heavy as you.

    I find it very organic, you can hear that on the sample here

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    Post EQ with FabFilter has also helped loads, and I only use Valhalla Room for reverb. The Kempers reverb remains off.

    This was what worked for me, and believe me I tried many things for hours. Adjusting the Kempers Sens etc didn't make much difference for me, but others swear by it. I simply make very subtle adjustments to the EQ of the TopJimi Kemper Jubilee profile.

    There's a huge difference in different profiles, as far as I'm concerned. So a good place to start is trying loads of profiles. I rate TopJimi as what you hear in the samples is pretty much what you'll hear when you get the profile. Others tend to advertise their profile when its been mixed. Unless you have equal mixing skills to them, you wont get the same result with their profile.

    This profile is on my shopping list.
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  • You might also want to dial in a little bit of the direct sound, it brings in a little more of the initial pick attack as well as character from the pickup. Try adding about +2


    You will find the direct setting in the Amp section

  • That's what I need to do with most high gain profiles. I just don't get it why so many profilers decide to have such amount of distortion on their profiles. It's like more is better. Better for what?

    Think for yourself, or others will think for you wihout thinking of you

    Henry David Thoreau

  • drog I’m not 100% sure about this but I don’t think the Direct level is actually the Direct signal per se. If I understand correctly all profiles seem to have two components the first a clean profile for gain level below 4 and a dirty profile for gain above 4. My guess is that the reason mixing in some Direct signal works so well is because it’s just st adding in a little bit f the clean portion of the actual amp profile which gives a nice bit of clarity without losing the character of the profile.


    I wonder if Burkhard or ckemper could confirm if this the case or if I’m talking out my ass ?

  • In the Stack section:

     Direct Mix

    With “Direct Mix” you can open up a parallel path to the amplifier distortion and mix a clean portion of the guitar to the distorted sound. This will add some dynamics and attack to the sound, as well as adding some of the frequency content of the clean guitar. Similar results were formerly achieved by running the guitar through a clean and a distorted amplifier in parallel (dual amping). Now, it’s done with a twist of a knob. “Direct Mix” controls the volume of the clean portion.

  • AFAIK it's as it's described, Alan - the Direct signal, meaning the DI and not a "clean version of the Profile". I'd assume that this is the signal tapped from immediately-prior to entering the Profile's gain stage. If it were a clean version mixed-in, surely that would require two Profiles' being able to be run at-once, which we all know cannot currently be done.


    I could be wrong, but this is how I understand it. Your speculation is interesting 'though.:/


    EDIT:

    You posted whilst I was typing, Mud. Thanks for that.