New to Kemper..Thoughts and Frustrations.

  • I got my feet wet with digital amp modeling for the first time this year with the Atomic Amplifire-box. I also started a new band and we have been gigging about once per month. I don't want to bore anyone with the details, but I have fully embraced the sound quality as well as the convenience of bringing less gear to shows. At this point I don't see myself going back to lugging around my tube amps and cabs. I ended up purchasing a Kemper Stage a couple weeks ago. The first thing I noticed was the sound quality and FEEL were unparalleled. Simply amazing...


    However, I have been struggling getting the kemper to cut through the mix while practicing with the full band. This has been very frustrating for me. I ended up purchasing several commercial rig packs from Mbritt and Top Jimi with no change. It's like most of the profiles I hear have no mids dialed in. I end up having to crank the definition, highs and mids...Sometimes this works fine and other times I "run out of room" with the eq. and can't boost the right frequencies anymore.


    I never had a problem with my ampli-firebox and the other guitarist has never had a problem with his tech21 fly rig. So what I ended up doing, was setting a profile as close as possible to my firebox. This helped tremendously...Finding a starting point that I know cuts through live and tweaking from there.


    There are quite a few profiles on the rig exchange that have the mids/treble dialed in perfectly...But there are A LOT that just sound like bass/scooped mids. Even the MBritt profiles I find the worst for cutting through the mix..I have to max out the mids and crank the highs and it still sounds like a blanket over the speaker. So this rules out my theory that paid commercial profiles are the only way to go. **The Mbritt and Top Jimi sound awesome for recording though**.


    In summary, finding good live profiles is not as easy or plug and play as I thought it would be. Now that I have a "starting point" for a great live profile that I know will cut, it has been easier sifting through the rig exchange..but it's still a chore.


    The good:

    -Sound quality, Feel, effects all in one package.


    The bad:

    -Finding quality profiles I will actually use/spending more time than I would like. Spending lots of money on commercial profiles that everyone says are the best, but I find they don't work for me at all (live). 80% of profiles I have to instangly crank the mids/highs or else they get burried..even then they don't have the definition like my ampli-firebox.


    I've had good luck with Bert M, Hayes, and a few free ones from Tone Junkie.

    Maybe I just haven't found the right commercial profiler that is more compatible for me??

    Do any of you have any recommendations for somebody that makes profiles geared for live use instead of studio use?


    Thanks!



    *Edit- I run the kemper through QSC K10's and K8's. Going direct through Presonus 16 channel board.. Not using merged profiles or cabs.

    Edited once, last by jhideout ().

  • If you like the sound in recording but not with the live band it brings up a number of thoughts. I don't know if any will help, but perhaps it will get you looking at things from different angles to help you get better results.


    From what you said, it sounds like the problem is specific to rehearsals. MB profiles are in fact optimized for live performance, with many people talking about how they really come alive once at gig level. However, a gig is typically a very, very different environment than a rehearsal room.


    I'm assuming you're talking about the sound coming out of your cabinet, not the sound coming out of your PA via the Presonus. In this case, your speaker placement will have an effect. I have a DXR-10, similar in configuration to your QSCs. If I put it on its feet standing vertically, the sound hits the back of my legs. I find it best in the wedge position pointing up. However, some people go further and prefer it on a stand. It's not a silver bullet but can be a contributing factor.


    Another consideration when rehearsing is the room itself, which is almost never optimized for audio quality at high volumes. If you're in a warehouse, a standard house sheetrocked room (you just haven't lived until you've experienced a two guitar rock band at full volume in a 10 x 10 bedroom) or any other such space, you've got sound bouncing all over the place. That can easily stomp on certain frequency ranges, making it hard to hear. The frequencies that are enhanced and suppressed will be very different than a stage at a gig.


    And this brings up an important point. Most of the good profiles (I own and love both MB and TJ) are designed to sound good in actual use, i.e. in a recording or at a gig (both through FOH and on a stage, which usually has more room to breathe than a rehearsal room). If it sounds good in recording but not in rehearsals, chances are good that it's your room, and the tweaks you made are in fact taking a good sound and making it bad (so to speak) in order to cut through the acoustical chaos of a bad rehearsal space. Okay for rehearsal. Not so much for live.


    Of course, this is certainly pure speculation, but it's one possible factor. To solve a problem, the first step is understanding the true nature of the problem. Otherwise you end up fixing the wrong thing.


    One way to test this is to take some recordings you've made that have great sounding guitars. Save off a mix minus everything but your guitar (so your guitar doesn't get altered). Play it back in rehearsal at the same volume you play at, and let everyone else play along. If it sounds great in your recording's final mix but gets lost in this test, you're looking at issues with your room. If this points to acoustics, the first thing I'd do would be to try to fix the room.


    If you still just can't get there, rather than screwing with your profiles that sound great in a recording (and thus will sound great at FOH when you're gigging), I'd do something like throwing a Boss GE-7 in front of the Kemper. And / or the QSC may have some EQ. Tweak to where you can hear okay in rehearsal, lose it for recording and gigs, thus preserving your "real" guitar tone.


    As I'm sure you know, I'm just guessing here as I don't know what your space is like, what you're hearing, etc. But before spending money on more profiles, you might explore some of these paths as I don't think your problems are coming from the profile itself. Lots of folks use both MB & TJ live, so I think you might be trying to skin the wrong cat.


    For whatever it's worth - hope this is helpful.

    Kemper remote -> Powered toaster -> Yamaha DXR-10

  • Welcome and have fun in the forum and with your Kemper!


    Sounds a bit unfortunate what you experience. Indeed there is not much to add to Chris Duncan's great advice above. He nicely described what I feel as well. I have to admit that in my early times with the Kemper it took me a while to understand the beauty of highly rated commercial profiles as I found a big bunch of them too dull sounding. But at higher volumes the beauty comes out. And the clarity of those who might sound nice at low volume sometimes turns into shrill or fizzy sound at higher volumes. Kind of a loudness effect. So the key advice is to test profiles at your regular volumes for rehearsals and gigging.

  • Thanks for the advice!


    I have been playing with full band at live volume with another guitarist. I understand the importance of basic eq and dialing in patches at live volume with the full band.


    I did make somewhat of a breakthrough today after spending hours with the Kemper.


    Here’s what I’ve found:


    The Mbritt profiles sound great on there own, but they also have that “blanket over speaker” characteristic to them.


    I have taken several Mbritt profiles and turned off the cab that he used...I installed several of my favorite Celestion IR’s in the Kemper and used them with the MBritt profiles..


    I Instantly got great results and all the mids/highs and presence returned...The blanket has been lifted off the speakers and I’m FINALLY getting the results I’ve been hoping for.

  • ^^ I’m just somewhat perplexed with my experience...I feel like I’m the only one who has had difficulties with Highly recommended commercial profiles.


    I can’t be the only person who uses the Kemper direct with quality QSC k series speakers.

  • I also found many commercial profiles to be low/mid heavy. In many cases, I've added a Treble Booster (often adjusted to a very low Tone value) in the Stomps section with excellent results.

    Go for it now. The future is promised to no one. - Wayne Dyer

  • The MBritt profiles are a good starting point but they are on the dark side. Tone Junkie is a little brighter. One thing I try to do is find the tonal center of the setup. By setup I mean the whole package starting with the tone generator - in this case the KPA - and the speaker. In my case I use the KPA into the Yamaha DXR 10. I have two of them but I mostly tweak with one. I also have the powered head and I have a few guitar cabs which sound good but I find that I prefer the FRFR and I am use to it. So heres what I do....First I find a decent "middle of the road" profile like one of the basic MBritt Marshalls (I like the Metro 2203) and maybe the TJ Stu G AC 30 profiles. I will load them up and before I start tweaking them I adjust the settings on the speaker to what sounds best to my ear. Most FRFR speakers have eq presets and through trial and error I have found that the "flat" setting on the Yamahas work best for me. Then I will make sure the input settings are appropriate for the guitar I am using. Over time and with tweaking I am centered around the 0/0 setting for single coils and humbuckers. At this point I might start to tweak some basic rig settings like Amp definition BUT the key thing to tweak at this point for me is the EQ on the output section. This is key because this is where you dial the tonal center of the rig(s) to match the speaker(s) you are listening through. As you go through this exercise a couple of times you should find that the various rigs will start to sound better through your gear without any extreme tweaking. This is because you are zeroing in on an appropriate configuration for your setup. This is not perfect and it takes a little practice but the payoff is that you will know that what you are hearing is "accurate" with regard to your particular setup. Good luck and happy tweaking!

  • ^^ I’m just somewhat perplexed with my experience...I feel like I’m the only one who has had difficulties with Highly recommended commercial profiles.


    I can’t be the only person who uses the Kemper direct with quality QSC k series speakers.

    Before I started using the Yamaha DXRs I was using the QSC K12s. They are similar sounding - maybe the QSCs are a little bit fuller sounding. In either case the same methodology applies.

  • ^^ I’m just somewhat perplexed with my experience...I feel like I’m the only one who has had difficulties with Highly recommended commercial profiles.


    I can’t be the only person who uses the Kemper direct with quality QSC k series speakers.

    Great that you found the sound you were looking for!


    As for your difficulties, there is no "one size fits all" in the arts. We each have our own preferences and desires when it comes to music and guitar tone. Otherwise we'd all sound alike.


    What sounds perfect to my ears could be absolute rubbish to someone else. The important thing is to find the sound that works for you. It really doesn't matter what works for everyone else.

    Kemper remote -> Powered toaster -> Yamaha DXR-10

  • ^^ I’m just somewhat perplexed with my experience...I feel like I’m the only one who has had difficulties with Highly recommended commercial profiles.


    I can’t be the only person who uses the Kemper direct with quality QSC k series speakers.

    1. Most of the MBritt profiles (unless otherwise stated in the profile notes) are created using P90 pickups. Guys using humbuckers (especially those high powered ones with fewer highs) will probably notice a muddy tone which can usually be fixed with tweaking the Definition and Clarity parameters in the amp section.


    2. I use one of the original series QSC K10s. They are notorious for low mid mud. The trick (and this is VERY important....night and day difference) is to cut-3dB @ 700 Hz.

    For a while I was using a Quadraverb between the Kemper and QSC with a PEQ patch with the above settings. Now, I use a PEQ patch in the MOD slot on the Kemper.


    If you're using hot humbuckers plus the K10 I'm not surprised you're getting a muddy sound.


    BTW, the MBritt profiles are my go to profiles for everything. 90% of the time I use single coil pickups, but have used them successfully for PAF style humbuckers as well.

    The key to everything is patience.
    You get the chicken by hatching the egg, not by smashing it.
    -- Arnold H. Glasow


    If it doesn't produce results, don't do it.

    -- Me