(FREE IR)Profiling, Cab in the room and Cab IR's Question/Discussion

  • I'm sure there is a reason why and maybe someone can enlighten me... I'm just wondering if a lot of people are looking for the amp in the room tone... then why aren't more people profiling with reference mic's? I mean if you profile with a mic that is FR like a reference mic then you'd get the cab in the room sound. The same thing with these guys that are making cab IR's, why not use a reference mic and capture the sine sweep and generate the IR from that?

    Am I missing something here? Has this already been tried and didn't work?

  • Dang, not a single darn person want to talk about this???

    Well I don't know how many of you use your own IR's so here's a couple I created. Import them to Rig Manager and you can drag and drop them to your profiler.

    This is actually an IR of 3 cabs. A HESU V212 Demon loaded and mic with a 421, a Bogner UberKab with a R121 on the V30, and a Friedman BE100 cab with a SM57 on the G12M. I have 5 IR's that were mixed to get the sound in the room, my favorite mix, a slight mid boost, and 2 levels of high cut from the mid boost settings.

    The IR's are thick, have some major thump, buttery mids, and screaming highs. If I were to explain it in as and EQ the overall sound signature is like a "W" EQ. These are primarly for high gain, but work well with crunch and cleans too.

    BulldogXTRM IR.zip

  • BulldogXTRM

    Changed the title of the thread from “Profiling, Cab in the room and Cab IR's Question/Discussion” to “(FREE IR)Profiling, Cab in the room and Cab IR's Question/Discussion”.
  • 2 More IR's I just finished up. 1 is a mix of the borrowed HESU V212 Demon and My UBERKAB only. The 2nd is a the HESU and my bandmates Friedman BE100 cab. Both of these are a bit more refined than the previous IR's.

    They're not quite as boomy, a bit more warmth but still clear and some sparkle up top. Let me know if you use them and like them...

    BulldogXTRM IR2.zip

  • Thank you for sharing! My guess about profiling with reference Mics is that most people don’t do it, because they want to create a profile that would easily fit in a mix. Traditional guitar microphone technique and placement is designed to do that.

    Yeah, I get that but I've been reading so many posts where people are whining about the Kemper not capturing the amp in the room sound that guitar players are used to so I was thinking this would be the way to accomplish that.

  • You may be onto something.

    I took a couple of approaches to a similar idea. When I made my first profiles, I placed the microphone at head height, and at the distance I usually stood from my Marshall when playing live. This was in 2013 - "Natural Reverb" wasn't an available effect, so I couldn't reproduce the three dimensional sound of a cabinet. I replaced those with some that I made with two mics - an on axis 57 and an off axis large diaphragm condenser, as another way to get less of the "ear up against the speaker" tone. There is still some midrange hump for the FOH mix, but also some of the sound of the actual speaker cabinet.

  • Hi there. I see what you mean about this, but then we have to explain ourselves what is "amp in the room" sound.

    AITR is a subjective way to describe the sound we perceive in front of a speaker while performing. This sound is technically impossible to get 100% right because of the next things:

    1.- Physical reverberation from the sound source itself: You can simulate the reverb or response in an specific room, but each cab has an air transmition from its own body, which generates a sense of presence as technically, this is felt rather than heard. You can capture very few of this while amplifying after a mic, but while air pressure can be translated into sound, there are vibrations that can not be organically be replicated through a mic because of how its mechanism works, being a cardioid, ribbon, condenser or whatever. You can replicate this part with an actual mic designed for this, but turns out part of the reverberation already has an audible effect with the mics, which doesnt translate in the "feel" of that, but a "hiss" or high frequency peak (which kemper tried to attack with the purecab parameer).

    2.- Reference mics are not rather flexible when recording: You can take a reference mic, but because of the nature of sound, it would do great on low volume recording of small combos, while having issues with stacks. One of the main issues with mic recording is the strategic distribution of frequency response, cause when you record flat, most reference mics will present some harmonic distortion due to overlaping of frequencies at a flat response and with a different perception of volume (it meas, while higher the volume, it will sound less flat). You can circumvent this getting a reference mic with high spl and compensating the harmonics at high volumes, but still it is an small problem that sounds easier said than done.

    3.- Binaural nature of our ears: Believe it or not, we do not "hear" per se, in stereo, which together with what I described in the first point, determines what we actually feel like is the AITR, we do identify left and right, but the way our body works (specifically ears and head), we can identify up and down, and to a lesser extense front and back. We depend in small differences of sound (micro delays if you want) and the sound pressure on the ambience and our body, to identify the location of objects. This makes music rather difficult to portray in mixes, as we mimic placement with a correct eq placement and spacing of frequencies, but with an amp in the room, your head does this automatically. Now, what happens if you transform a signal to mono (in this case when kemper profiles the amp with a mic or a mix of mics) and then reproduce it on another mono source, is that you already lost the physical caracteristics that represented the presense of the amp itself, and your ears are hearing, theorically, a compressed version of the amp. What I mean, you cannot get a binaural response from a mono source, and even if we record a stereo signal and the profiler would actually make a profile in a binaural fashion, it gets difficult as then again, you are using ANOTHER cab to reproduce a source that originally was binaural. This can be tweaked and I believe that kemper does to certain extent, but the amp you would be feeling now, its the presense of the FRFR speaker cab connected to the kemper, PLUS the mono compressed signal from the original cab amp.

    In short, it is not that easy jajaja, but I hope this is a bit educational.

  • I have purchased some speaker IRs from Celestion and a few others.

    But how do I create an IR profile of my own speaker cabs? I can profile an amp but is there a way to just to a speaker? IE , i have a old JBL D130f 15 in speaker in a pine cabinet that sounds great. This is the same speaker in a vintage Fender Showman and Bandmaster cabinet. Would be happy to post and share this IR if i

  • Been there done that. I honestly wish everyone would post merged profiles only.

    But that's not the point with my post. I appreciate your input anyway.

    If you have a suitable DI (like the Kemper DI), you could create a Merged profile that would allow you to perfectly separate the cab from the amp itself. Works great :)

  • Okay, but where can we find said IR's. I've dug around the internet looking for the JM IR's and can only find some stuff for the Atomic Amps...

    By the way I've attached some more of my own IR's that I've used. They're all pretty dang good if I say do say myself.

    I‘ve tried jay Mitchell’s far field and the results are better than the normal cabs with all profiles regardless if they are Mbritts, Bert Meulendijk or tone junkie.

    BulldogXTRM IR.zip