Solved! Stereo thru FRFR's, had a great sound, lost it, can't figure it out. Please help!

  • So I had initial issues with bass heavy tones. Lifted the powered speakers and fixed it. Everything still sounded a bit clunky and then, either through dumb luck or coincidence, I stumbled upon settings that had a wide open feel, organic, like an amp on 10, saturated, full & rich sound like we hear on youtube videos or sound cloud clips.


    Then I tried putting my speakers in the main 1/4's, didn't like it. Put them back into monitor out/direct send and cannot get it back. I've tried everything in the output menu, amp and cab settings (Definition, clarity pure cab, etc.) I have no idea what happened.


    I've had Monitor out set to Master Stereo and Monitor stereo soft button checked off as I'm pretty sure that's how 2 frfr's should be run in stereo. But, it sounds sterile and lifeless. Every profile is bass heavy again. I have no idea how to get it back but, I'm just about out of ideas and thinking of returning it.


    I hope the extremely friendly, experienced and helpful people on this forum would see fit to offering tips tricks or ideas. Maybe someone knows what I'm experiencing. This thing sounded SO RICH and INTENSE that I'd be sad to return it over something I simply can't figure out. I've read the manual, tried different connections and some settings. I could use some help!

  • I had the same thing happen, I am using a 1st gen 6i6 which I want to desperately get rid of (Im poor atm)

    Anyways after a couple weeks of fiddling and not getting the tone I decided to connect via spdif..

    At first the kemper and 6i6 was at 44k and still that tone was not there. Weak tone. Made me want to return and go the axe route.


    One night I was reading and saw someone post on a forum that most IR's are sampled at 48k.

    They went on further that it makes no sense to record at 44 because the conversion process.


    That got me experimenting and messing with the kemper. I set both units at 48k and then thought I fixed a miss match in in the bit rate 16 vs 24.

    The Kemper is at 24 and the 6i6 can be either bit rate. I shut the kemper off and rebooted.


    What happened next was something I never ever expected. The Kemper is 100& glorious. The tone is unreal.. It just opened it up.

    There is no way I'm getting rid of this thing now.


    I'm not sure what part of my journey fixed my sound, thought it may help you to see how I got there with the same type of issue.


    To those skeptics that say you cannot hear between 44k and 48k I agree with you!!!

    There is something else going on here.


    I truly think there is some internal kemper thing OR focusrite 1st Gen that needs to be at 48k.


    Mine was sounding bad through the monitor outs as well..

    Even tho you are going out that way set your Spdif setting to 48k as an experiment.


    Best Regards

    Joe

  • Im not recording or using anything but, the frfr's. Just playin at home. Have nothing left to try. The fact that it worked & is now gone leads me to believe it's the unit.


    Re; the frfr's Ive got them upright & off the floor. Its not that. Check this clip:


    This organic sound is what I had & is now gone. Its not me but, an example of good sounding profile & I had dimilar. He's running 1 frfr & im running 2 in stereo & it doesnt even sound stereo. Its flat sterile, clunky mono.


    All Im left with sounds worse than my boss katana. When I had it in stereo & right, it was glorious. Something is a miss, just no idea what happened.

  • Could it be that you messed with the pure cab settings? Mine are always off but there might be ppl who prefer these on a particular setting. If you had it set to a setting that you gravitated towards, maybe it's that?

  • ive got pure cab off, thanks for the tip.


    Somethings off here. It was full, thick, rich, organic etc. Now it sounds mono even on stereo. Honestly, my digitech rp360 into the monitors was better.


    I think somethings up with the unit. I have an inquiry in with kemper. Ill see what they say.


    I tried adding the stereo widener & it helped but, it wasnt there before & still not as good as it was. Ive tried the main outs 1/4" & monitor/direct. Master stereo & monitor stereo & its weak. Thinks itxs goin back unless Kemper can help me figure it out.

  • You to systemically trouble shoot the entire signal path end to end.


    Have you confirmed that the problem isn’t either the cables or the FRFR cabs themselves? Plug something else in the the cabs and test them. Most FRFR have some form of DSP and often have options for different EQ etc is it possible that one of them got moved while moving the cabs? Is possible you are sending a line level signal to a mic level input and clipping the input?


    The nect thing I would do is go back to using main outputs rather than the monitor out. The XLR and 1/4 outs should be the same except the XLR is balanced and has a better signal to noise ratio. The actual signal being sent to Main and Monitor is determined by the output settings. If both are set to Master Stereo the signal is the same (unless monitor cab is turned off x which you definitely don’t want for FRFR speakers).


    With the main outputs connected start at the input menu and walk through everything stage by stage. Is the noise gate set too high? Has clean sens or dist sens been moved? Etc.


    Lock all FX in the off position first and use just the stack then output settings as this will narrow down the possible cause. If this all checks out and the problem persists then add the Stomps back on by one. Then the FX one by one. Be really methodical rather than jumping around from section to section.

  • Thanks for the in depth reply. They are headrush 8" frfr's. There is nothing other than volume, ground lift & contour. Have tried with each on/off. I also have a digitech SDrum going l/r out to each speaker directly, not through the kemper, and no problems with them.


    I was only using 2-3 commercial profiles someone was kind enough to let me try before buying. There were no fx linked to either, just a couple of eq's, some on and some off.


    Clean sen & dist. sen seem to be ok. Not much of a clean player so haven't touched it. Dist. sens I have between -.3 to 0.


    After some initial issue with placement of the monitors, I got them elevated and sounding better. Then, either by chance or whatever, I found this glorious full, rich, organic tone with the same 2-3 profiles I referenced earlier. I do remember that my speakers were hooked up to monitor/direct as I tried mains first & had no luck.


    Fuller, richer & more organic than the clip I posted of the guy above using similar speaker. It was amazing.


    I have tried direct/monitor out as well as main 1/4". I was short 1 XLR cable which I'll go buy today to try each with xlr cable through main. I'll even try to swap out the cables from the sdrum with the cables I currently have going to the monitors. But, I'm not optimistic.


    I've gone through the output menu extensively, factory reset, init. globals, Noise gate is off or at a minimum. Definition usually up, pure cab off, clarity usually off or very low. Direct mix usually off or very low.


    I'm a newbie but, not completely hopeless lol. I sent a backup copy of the profiler to Kemp and they are going to try to help me figure this out. If not, it's going back but, not giving up. I might swap it for the Stage.

  • Something is definitely wrong somewhere. The stage will sound exactly the same as the Toaster or Rack when all 3 are working properly.


    Just a random thought but, have you moved the speakers and/or you listening position relative to them? You might be amazed at just how much of a difference speaker placement within a typical untreated room can make.

  • I know they'll sound the same but, I think it might be a problem with this particular unit which is why I'd make the swap. I'd go for the stage just to get access to the footswitch portion & start using it. lol Haven't even touched mine yet.


    I was experiencing bass heavy tones with the frfr's on the ground. I put them on milk crates and partially fixed the issue. Then, as I mentioned, I stumbled upon settings or a divine act from god, I got this glorious sound. For a few days, was even about to buy a bunch of commercial packs.


    I haven't touched the frfr's since as I was so happy with the sound where they were, I know placement isn't the issue. If it sounded great where they are, that potential problem is ruled out.


    I sent my backup to kemper & they responded saying my monitor out was not configured properly which I know is not the case. I tried all output settings, multiple times.


    They told me to use monitor/direct master stereo, soft button monitor stereo and uncheck monitor cab off. I've done this dozens of times. I've gone through all output presets (Studio, default, live with 2 frfr's etc.). What's curious however is that sometimes while I was trying to work through this, when I switched monitor to master stereo, the soft button option for Monitor Stereo doesn't appear. I believe, from reading the manual and the screen, that when set to master stereo, they become 1 pair or stereo outs. Maybe this has something to do with it?


    I don't know. I have a feeling it's just an issue with my unit as I can find no one who has experiences a similar issue. I will load the backup they sent me. If that fails, I will see if I can find someone or go to a store with it & plug into 2 frfr's and see if it works. If not, it goes back. I do appreciate all the help from you guys!

  • well, in case anyone was wondering, I installed the backup file kemper sent me & on restart I got a green screen & error. Now it wont start up. It's dead. Im at a loss to explain it. Mad & disappointed yet releived that my suspicion about a bad unit may have been right. Sadly I'll never know for sure. After this I"m apprehensive about getting another one.

  • Well, yes. I got a Stage as a replacement. It works great so far. Updated firmware straight out of the box & fired it up. I'm using the main 1/4" outs, master stereo.


    At first I thought, oh no, not again. Then I went into edit of output menu & saw that it was set to wet/dry/wet. Set it to default & back to tonal nirvana. Same with studio, , live with 2 frfr's & live with cabinet. I dont know what was wrong with the toaster I got but, this was so easy with the stage.


    Very happy right now knowing it wasn't me doing something wrong, was just the unit. And I saved over $500 which enables me to get an ltd ec401 with actives (fluence moderns) to go with my Gibson LP'S.

  • newbie123

    Changed the title of the thread from “Stereo thru FRFR's, had a great sound, lost it, can't figure it out. Please help!” to “Solved! Stereo thru FRFR's, had a great sound, lost it, can't figure it out. Please help!”.