Midi Thru Issue

  • I'm having issues with my Midi THRU port on my kemper rack. Running the latest firmware 7.13. I am using a PC audio interface to send midi out to my kemper and a line 6 helix. connected as follows:


    PC (sending CC messages on channels 1 and 2) --> Kemper MIDI IN (Kemper global set to 2, have also tried OMNI) --> Kemper MIDI THRU (set to channel 1) --> Line 6 Helix MIDI IN(set to channel 1)


    With this configuration the line 6 helix is not receiving the MIDI CC messages from the PC (but it does receive the MIDI clock so I know the port is working). The Kemper receives the commands for channel 2 and processes them as I expect as well so I know the PC is sending out the commands. I have also tried flipping the order of my devices (PC-->Helix-->Kemper) and this works fine, both devices receive their messages as I would expect. Ideally, I'd like to have the Kemper connected to the PC directly and use the THRU as this will save in live midi cable routing.


    Any help would be appreciated.

  • Thanks Hoki, I've also already confirmed that the MIDI cables are good. Using the same set of cables swapping the order of devices so the helix is first, then the kemper everything works fine. Also confirmed that if I enabled the UI and pedals to MIDI in the kemper and feed that back to the PC and monitor the messages using the same cables that those midi commands generated from the kemper gets output on both the OUT and THRU ports. So it seems I just can't get messages coming in the IN port to pass through the kemper.

  • when set to OUT mode, the KPA will not merge incoming MIDI into it's out.


    when set to THRU, it will be a THRU port (=an exact forward of all INcoming data)


    so what you want to achieve can't be done with the KPA directly, you will need a MIDI merger for that.


  • Have you tried having the Helix first in the midi chain - it can be set to pass on everything via its midi out.


    Also - if you're only sending midi to 2x devices - try a midi Y splitter cable to send midi in parallel to the Helix and Kemper . I have a 'midi through' box that takes the midi signal from my helix and sends it in parallel to the 4 midi devices in my rack - so no need to switch everything on just to get midi to the last device in the chain.

  • ajbsmirnoff, I have tried the Helix first just to make sure the cables and audio interface end is working properly and that works fine...data is received by the helix, it processes it's commands and forwards the commands OUT/THRU to the kemper and the kemper receives it's commands. That works as expected, but for live setup the preference for cable routing would be PC-->Kemper-->Helix.


    kpahuitsing, how do you change the midi modes in the kemper to pass incoming data thru? I've tried setting both A and B midi devices to THRU (channel 1 for the helix) as well as just midi device B as THRU (channel 1) but I cannot figure out how to get MIDI IN data to route THRU the kemper.

  • midi THRU is midi THRU, and it works as it should: as midi THRU !


    Code
    1. PC[OUT] ---> [IN] KPA [THRU] ---> [IN] Strymon [OUT] --+
    2. |
    3. PC[IN] <-----------------------------------------------+

    should have no problems at all: did you connect it that way?

  • midi THRU is midi THRU, and it works as it should: as midi THRU !

    To clarify this for the semi-MIDI-literates: according to the MIDI specification, a MIDI Thru port is supposed to forward exactly the data that is received at MIDI In, without adding or modifying anything. In this sense, the Kemper MIDI Thru mode is actually 'perfect' - it conforms 100% with the MIDI specification.


    Anything beyond purely forwarding the input is not strictly MIDI Thru - if you want to merge MIDI input to Kemper output, that would be a "merged output" function. Whilst this is certainly something that could be wished for (hint: feature request), it strictly not a deficit of the MIDI Thru function.


    To stop nitpicking terminology: I would support a feature request for a MERGE mode for the outputs that merges MIDI input and Kemper output. This is what you would need for the Strymon scenario above: send control messages to it from the Kemper and use the editor from the PC at the same time. Currently, you have to use THRU (for the editor) or OUT for control via the Kemper.


    The picture above (by kpahuitsing ) should work with Thru.


    (Of course, the THRU port can't be set as a MIDI device output (System menu) if you want to use it as THRU)


    Cheers,


    Torsten

  • BTW a quick question: is there a way to set the MIDI output on a Stage to THRU (since the Stage doesn't have a physical THRU port)? Not that this is really an important requirement - I guess the Stage is typically more a MIDI sender than a forwarder...


    Interesting observation: in the System menu of the Stage, it is still possible to select THRU for MIDI Device A and B, even though the Stage doesn't have a THRU port - maybe something to be fixed in a future OS update for the stage...


    Cheers,


    Torsten

  • BTW a quick question: is there a way to set the MIDI output on a Stage to THRU (since the Stage doesn't have a physical THRU port)? Not that this is really an important requirement - I guess the Stage is typically more a MIDI sender than a forwarder...


    no, this isn't possible.


    Interesting observation: in the System menu of the Stage, it is still possible to select THRU for MIDI Device A and B, even though the Stage doesn't have a THRU port - maybe something to be fixed in a future OS update for the stage...

    AFAIK: this is because it is possible to restore a backup from the head/rack onto the Stage, and this indicates & retains/keeps the 'impossible' setting in that case.

  • Ok, So I'm pretty sure my understanding of MIDI THRU is correct......I've tried multiple configurations for my midi connections as follows:


    PC [Midi OUT] --> Kemper [Midi IN] --> Kemper [Midi THRU] --> Helix [Midi IN]

    :thumbdown:- Doesn't work, Kemper gets MIDI from PC, Helix doesn't, but helix gets MIDI clock from Kemper


    PC [Midi OUT] --> Helix [Midi IN]--> Helix [Midi OUT/THRU] --> Kemper [Midi IN]

    :thumbup: - Everything works as expected, Helix gets commands from PC and Kemper gets commands from PC that are forwarded thru the helix. I don't want to use this configuration because it adds more cable routing for live setup...preferred connection is PC-->Kemper-->Helix




    enabling UI to Midi and Pedals to Midi in the Kemper I tried the following configurations (using ReaControlMIDI in reaper to monitor incoming midi messages from the kemper):


    PC [Midi OUT] --> Kemper [Midi IN] --> Kemper [Midi THRU] --> PC [Midi IN]

    :thumbdown:- Doesn't work, messages sent from PC get processed by the kemper, but I don't see any messages coming back to the PC....but If I move an expression pedal I get commands back to the PC from the kemper



    I don't want to merge MIDI data....I just want MIDI THRU to work....Is there a system setting that I'm missing somewhere in the Kemper? I see 3 pages pertaining to MIDI configurations (pages 13-15) and I feel like I've tried everything to make MIDI THRU work. Is it possible there's a bug in the latest firmware? Does MIDI THRU work as expected for others using the latest firmware (7.13)?

  • so the situation is as follows:


    - set the KPA into 'perform' mode (note that this settings can only be done in perform mode)

    - open the system menu page 14/18: there are the 2 important settings



    when at least one of both is set to 'THRU' the THRU port will in fact be function as OUT2 ! --> so in your case please verify that both are set to either 'OUT' or '-' (= case1, see below) because you want it to behave as THRU function.


    the other thing that maybe a bit confusing is the fact that in your case the MIDI Clock is received by your external equipment. This is because regardless of the THRU port function mode, when 'Send MIDI clock' is enabled there will be a clock on the THRU port, when a MIDI clock is received!


    A: port
    B: port
    KPA's THRU port function
    MIDI clock on THRU port
    1 MIDI OUT or '-'
    MIDI OUT or '-'
    THRU clock coming from MIDI IN only
    ('Send MIDI Clock' has no effect for the THRU port in this case!)
    2 MIDI THRU
    MIDI OUT or '-'
    OUT2 (A)
    I) clock synced to MIDI IN's clock (when available)
    or
    II) clock from KPA's internal tempo generator
    ('Send MIDI Clock' has to be enabled !)
    3 MIDI OUT or '-'
    MIDI THRU
    OUT2 (B)
    same as case 2
    4 MIDI THRU
    MIDI THRU
    OUT2 (A+B)
    same as case 2


    remarks:
    a) so only in case '1' the THRU port really is THRU function (!)

    b) when a MIDI clock is applied to KPA's IN, and 'Send MIDI Clock' is enabled => the MIDI clock is output from KPA's THRU port


    OK: it's kind of heavy going :) but I just verified it: and the KPA with 7.1.3 works correctly like we designed it to do.

  • midi THRU is midi THRU, and it works as it should: as midi THRU !


    Code
    1. PC[OUT] ---> [IN] KPA [THRU] ---> [IN] Strymon [OUT] --+
    2. |
    3. PC[IN] <-----------------------------------------------+

    should have no problems at all: did you connect it that way?

    o.s. 5.7
    like that, yes. but no, it doesn't work with editors...

    @DamianGreda , can you confirm (it was our old conversation, remember it?)?