Charging for profiles?

    I think that freedom and respect are the main values.
    If someone doesn't feel good about paying profiles should just say "no, i wouldn't pay", and stop it there. Argumentations are always welcome, but in a respectful discussion.
    If someone else feels better about donation is free to express himself, and so on.


    Everybody has a different approach: i think it is honest to ask for a contribution if he spends time and money on a certain activity. Sharing is welcome, as work (time+money) reward is.
    I have never seen people complaining about IRs bundles from Redwirez or Ownhammer, even if you can find a ton of free and homemade IRs which sound great.

    @ Okstrat: obviously you have to consider the fact that you have no way to protect your work. In this sense i think you might choose another approach.
    a) First profiling session for free (just one amp or two, it's your choice)
    b) before you make the second profiling session you fix the amount of donations you need to do that, when you join the target then you go for the session and upload the profiles for free.
    c) so on.


    It's basically the same approach that some forum communities have to get funds for surviving.
    In this way you can mix an acceptable reward for you time and money with the classic approach of community.

    Jimmy, Redwirez spent years developing there IR set. - they did it all, then tested..3 month beta test and so forth. - then went back and refined more to get things correct... and also gave the Paying public exactly what they wanted.. "Choice" - and also this is differnt to the KPA.


    Spending a few days in a studio is not woth paying money for. - if he spent a few months crafting his art, giving us 10 differnt mic models of the same amp, and at various angles/degrees etc.. then yeah.. it will be worth it. - you can then say.. Ok this guy has spent the time over x months to deliver a solid product to sell. so for My money I get X Y and Z!..this is more complex than saying, hey I have a great mic. therfore I can charge folk.. but its not valid and thats the point why a lot of us are anoyed by it.


    Becasue quality of mic pre's or quality of room does not come into effect with the KPA. we are paying for his mic choice, and HIS amp settings. - but JoeBloggs over there can easy hire a Royer121 mic for 10 dollers a day. and profile all his amps at home and upload them for free, with perhaps simular or better results.


    There will always be free stuff in this community, thats how it works.. and how it SHOULD work given the fact that KPA wanted a share community.
    But soon as a few folk start to charge others for the work involved, then it will all go downhill from there!.,
    I mean if ya'll want the amps so bad. go hire them, there are a lot of vintage rentals for a cheap day ticket. and you can then profile it yourself with the settings YOU want instead of paying someone a bunch of cash for HIS settings and not yoru own.


    Ok ive said enough on this subject. my thoughts are clear.
    If he wants to do it. I cant stop him. free world etc.
    Just its all too early for this to happen currently!

    Quote from Jimmyno

    I have never seen people complaining about IRs bundles from Redwirez or Ownhammer, even if you can find a ton of free and homemade IRs which sound great.


    It's true, but IRs work on a lot of hardware and software and Kemper profiles only work with the Kemper Profiling Amp. The KPA sales success depends on the availability of profiles and the community of profilers is very small compared to the IRs one.


    In my opinion, selling profiles will reduce the quality of the free ones. The high quality of some of the free profiles now available is one of the reasons people buy and love this amp.


    Saludos!

    @ and44 and pacocito: you are right guys, but each of us gives a different price to his work and his time.
    This may be a stupid example, but i think it suits well: you'll never complain to pay 3 € to buy a sandwich, even if you can do it by yourself in a few minutes and even if it would cost you less money. You buy it because you are hungry and because you don't have time to make one for yourself.
    Obviously i'm glad to save money if someone else prepares it for me and for free.


    In a community like this one it might be a failing idea to earn money by selling profiles, but obviously everybody is free to chose. Armin did it, i don't know how's going his business, somebody bought them, many others didn't and life has been fine anyway.


    That's why i'm not talking about earning money, and his first post okstrat was talking about covering the costs for the studio and gear hiring.
    I'm suggesting a different approach which sounds like this "ok guys, this is how i profile amps, if you want me to do other profiles, i need 100 €. If you make donations i will, if you don't i could do it anyway, but i cannot ensure it."


    P.S.: are you sure that mic preamps will not influence the final result? I don't think so.

    I will keep profiling multi thousand dollar amps and sharing them at no cost. The profiles are for me in the first place. I have made a few that I would never personally use because I know someone is searching for that sound and I am already set up. I love the flow of great tones and the way it is working right now. There are a few of my favorites that I would have never paid for, but really warmed up to them over time.


    The Kemper sharing model is a very attractive attribute of this cool piece of gear, pay to play could really halt the forward movement. Just my 2c


    Chad

    Quote from and44

    Becasue quality of mic pre's or quality of room does not come into effect with the KPA.


    I just want to set things straight here. Quality of mic pres actually does come into effect when profiling. Everything you put into the signal chain comes into effects when profiling.


    I spent Saturday in a really nice studio demoing the KPA for the owner and we compared preamps when profiling. He set up a Two Rock amp micing it with one 421 on an Alnico Blue and another 421 on a GH-12 65. Then we switched preamps. We tried the SLL 9000 pres as well as both new and vintage Neve and a few other and they all brought different qualities to the sound.


    Cheers,


    Mats N

    :P :P :P :love: :love: :love: I like what you're doing :D

    "Music is enough for a lifetime, but a lifetime is not enough for music" Serghei Rachmaninoff


    Wow, lots of backlash here. Glad to know you guys yelling the loudest comprehended that I:



    1) Have ALREADY profiled and shared SEVERAL thousand dollars worth of amps (70,72,74 Marshalls, some through a '72 cab, a one of 100 Mark III coliseum mesa, a bogner ecstasy with matching cab, a 70s Twin, and I think a few more - enough that I've lost track).



    2) Have stated that I am STILL going to share profiles that I do at home. I still have a '60 Fender Concert, Mesa Quad /VHT 2/90/2, an early Splawn Marshall mod, a '68 plexi clone w/period correct parts, a Marshall 18, two Trainwreck clones (an express and a liverpool) a real Silver Jubilee 2/3rds stack, the same model Randall RG Dimebag used on the early Pantera records, a VT44 Ampeg, and more that I haven't profiled yet. I also have a Fortin modded Marshall on the way. Mike Fortin is now making amps for Metallica. His stuff is awesome.



    3) Am going to try the 'donate' method to recoup studio costs - I'm not going into the Profile Business. If people give me a few bucks for a profile that they use and like, GREAT! If you don't, GREAT! If I don't make my $ back then I don't do it anymore. I figure if I come up with amazing profiles, people will support that and want to keep it going.



    To those who recommend renting microphones - great idea! But I just want to ensure I get THE best quality on the profiles I do, and this means another set of ears, a real isolation/control room, and better mic preamps. I just want to take the expensive and rare amps I own and be sure that the profiles made are the best possible. I can't afford to go to the studio to do them all.



    I'm probably just having a bad morning but the negativity on this thread is making me reconsider all sorts of things.

    Okstrat, i think i got you intention and i appreciate it.
    I think you might consider what i wrote in my last post.
    That would be fair enough and you could take out the best from your amps without having negative feedback in your pocket. 8)
    Rock on, man!

    As they say, opinions are like a$$holes - everyone's got one. People are always free to do what they want. I don't understand the negativity or really ANY negativity towards someone wanting to recoup their costs. Some people volunteer to build homes for free for poor people. But do you go up to a construction worker and yell at them because they are being paid to build a house?!!!! There is so much negativity everywhere these days. Let's keep this as positive a place as possible.

    I don't see anything at all wrong with paying for super quality profiles, If anyone is willing to spend their time, and using quality amps, mics, preamps etc, in a nice studio then they should get some money for their work. It would be a good idea to include some audio clips so people can hear what they're buying. If I hear any profiles that i need and can't get myself i'm willing to pay for it, no one is forced to buy them , so I hope people with good amp collections will profile and make them available for those who want it, it has been done over the years with patches for synths, and samples etc, so why not profiles?

    I also find some comment a bit exaggerated, Pete is not trying to start a business, just to cover up for some costs that for him alone would be excessive. Considering the exceptional quality of what he was able to do on his own at home I'm very interested in it and prepared to contribute to it, IMHO this is exactly the spirit of a community. If somebody is not interested is also fine, nobody is criticizing them, then leave it. Somebody here is able to take such costs personally (probably because they can justify them professionally) and somebody else not, and I find very nice from Pete to give us all the opportunity to get something that he would otherwise not do for himself (and do not forget all the time and work needed).


    From my side: thanks Pete and count me in! :thumbup:

    "Music is enough for a lifetime, but a lifetime is not enough for music" Serghei Rachmaninoff


    You bought all these beautiful amps and cabs, but you don't wanna buy mics, right? You know that's weird. But I feel the same. I have a bunch of amps, cabs, stomps and it didn't hurt me spending a lot of money for all that, allthough it is too much for only one player and there's a lot of things that never see a stage. I could take some profiles of my stuff, but still I have no good feeling about buying a highpricing mic. Leaning stuff has never been something for me. I want to own my gear. Why is that? ?(

    Quote from Froschn

    You bought all these beautiful amps and cabs, but you don't wanna buy mics, right? You know that's weird. But I feel the same. I have a bunch of amps, cabs, stomps and it didn't hurt me spending a lot of money for all that, allthough it is too much for only one player and there's a lot of things that never see a stage. I could take some profiles of my stuff, but still I have no good feeling about buying a highpricing mic. Leaning stuff has never been something for me. I want to own my gear. Why is that? ?(


    It's not just mics. I have currently:



    SM57s


    E 609 Silver


    MXL R144 (ribbon)


    Digital reference mic


    several AKG condensers for acoustic instruments


    and a 16 channel studio in my house built around a Mackie 1640i board.



    Here's the thing: I do not have the recording chops or the room or the abilities to really compete with a real, honest to God, we-do-this-for-a-living recording studio. I know just enough to know what I do NOT know.



    Pete

    Quote from guitarnet70

    I also find some comment a bit exaggerated, Pete is not trying to start a business, just to cover up for some costs that for him alone would be excessive. Considering the exceptional quality of what he was able to do on his own at home I'm very interested in it and prepared to contribute to it, IMHO this is exactly the spirit of a community. If somebody is not interested is also fine, nobody is criticizing them, then leave it. Somebody here is able to take such costs personally (probably because they can justify them professionally) and somebody else not, and I find very nice from Pete to give us all the opportunity to get something that he would otherwise not do for himself (and do not forget all the time and work needed).


    From my side: thanks Pete and count me in! :thumbup:

    Quote from guitarnet70

    Quote! thanks Pete and count me in! :thumbup: