Rig Manager 3 is available for testing 😍

  • And I think your comment about new bugs slipping in is a fair statement.... the addition of the editor is really a pretty massive change to the existing Rig Manager, from an engineering standpoint. That's a whole lot of new functionality, any of which could have bugs.

    Also note that except for one crash, there weren't any major bugs reported for the editor or how RM 3.0 and the editor work together (cheers). What we are seeing now are quite a few bugs mostly related to performances, storing, switching and copying slots, creating new ones.. all the things you are not having in mind when testing and developing an editor :)

    I was a little surprised that either so many people did not even try to manipulate single rigs and play around with it or that it goes so smoothly that mostly issues with performance management come to the surface now.. Looks like until NAMM we will focus on getting performances stable there.


    [Blocked Image: https://i.imgur.com/ZZZ7t0m.png]my rig manager look like this ,windows 10 , 2 k display ...125 percent fonts....

    The 125% on Windows seem to trigger the problem. For some people everything goes back to normal with 100%. It's not so easy to tell "why" though, so sending reports with as many details as possible is always helpful.

  • I was a little surprised that either so many people did not even try to manipulate single rigs and play around with it or that it goes so smoothly that mostly issues with performance management come to the surface now.

    I’m not at all surprised. I still don’t see much need for the virtual knob twiddling type “editor” functions unless the KPA is situated out of arms reach. However, the ability to manage performances and presets smoothly is a fundamental requirement.


    Most my headaches have always been caused by difficulties creating and managing performances rather than tweaking rigs or FX. I have very high hopes for the future development of the performance and presets aspects of RM

  • The 125% on Windows seem to trigger the problem. For some people everything goes back to normal with 100%. It's not so easy to tell "why" though, so sending reports with as many details as possible is always helpful.

    It's been a long time since I developed native Windows applications (VC++ / MFC, if that tells you anything), but I remember that changing font scale at the Windows level, e.g. 125%, screwed every-freakin-thing up. It was internal corporate stuff and there were deadlines, so the answer at the time was just "don't do that," not an option guys like you can afford.


    This was a form editor, using custom ActiveX controls (yeah, I know), drag and drop / grid placement, etc., much like you'd see in the dialog editor. I remember there were a fair amount of places where calculating positions, margins and other such things involved font considerations. I was a bit surprised because I was doing GDI stuff with no text. Memory is fuzzy but I recall things where the calls required information / metrics about the font selected in the device context I was drawing into in order to get the numbers I was needing. This also affected window sizes, positions, etc. of the child relative to the parent, and so on. As you probably know, MFC was really just a thin layer wrapping the Windows SDK, and in these cases I was directly calling the SDK stuff anyway. All pretty vague, but hopefully it makes sense to you.


    So, at least in my case, no real surprise that scaling the font size at the Windows level could introduce some, er, excitement. I don't remember the specific Windows API calls I was using (it's been many, many years, and I've slept since then), but it quickly highlighted my assumptions that font scale would never change. In fact, that wasn't even on my radar until one of our testers did it and reported the ensuing chaos.


    I don't know if that's helpful to you guys or not, but if you look at things as a whole and ask the question of what API calls you're using that might have dependencies on the fonts in the given device context, maybe it will offer a useful perspective. Or not.


    And happy new year.:)

  • . I get it that Windows 7 will be out of support from Microsoft soon

    Windows 7 End Of *Extended* support is January 14. It was End Of Life five years ago. FYI. It's not soon as in 'maybe sometime this year or next',


    While it's still possible to have your toolchain target windows 7, the costs associated with supporting an unsupported operating system do not math. I'm not surprised at all that Win 7 is not supported.

    FWIW, Win 10 is quite stable. I have it running on a tablet and it drives my whole show.


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  • I’m not at all surprised. I still don’t see much need for the virtual knob twiddling type “editor” functions unless the KPA is situated out of arms reach. However, the ability to manage performances and presets smoothly is a fundamental requirement.


    Most my headaches have always been caused by difficulties creating and managing performances rather than tweaking rigs or FX. I have very high hopes for the future development of the performance and presets aspects of RM

    this was the main reason I wanted the editor so I could quickly, easily and effectively manipulate my performances in a hurry. It seems as though they didn’t address this. I want to quickly move around rigs (I usually use one “rig” per song and use the morph as a boost or to change effect parameters) so I can change the order of songs per the set list. I have such trouble doing this as sometimes it works, or it just changes the name but not the rig. It seems the same exact thing is happening with rm3.0. I unfortunately have to wait to download the editor until I can do this, I can’t risk a malfunction at a show.

  • this was the main reason I wanted the editor so I could quickly, easily and effectively manipulate my performances in a hurry. It seems as though they didn’t address this. I want to quickly move around rigs (I usually use one “rig” per song and use the morph as a boost or to change effect parameters) so I can change the order of songs per the set list. I have such trouble doing this as sometimes it works, or it just changes the name but not the rig. It seems the same exact thing is happening with rm3.0. I unfortunately have to wait to download the editor until I can do this, I can’t risk a malfunction at a show.

    That was my biggest use case as well. I do like having a GUI for effects editing though. I have been using Toast ME for that when I need it. Still, arranging performances is the.biggest draw for me. FWIW, Kemper support told me that this is in the roadmap for Rig Manager.

  • I use performance mode, one performance/song. I had hoped that with the Editor would come more reliability in copying slots between performances, but I'm afraid it's still either quite buggy or unintuitive.


    Is there some particular dance I have to do using "Store" at just the right time, or something?

  • I use performance mode, one performance/song. I had hoped that with the Editor would come more reliability in copying slots between performances, but I'm afraid it's still either quite buggy or unintuitive.


    Is there some particular dance I have to do using "Store" at just the right time, or something?

    I do believe you need a Rabbi, a Priest, a chicken and a large, very sharp knife.

  • I use performance mode, one performance/song. I had hoped that with the Editor would come more reliability in copying slots between performances, but I'm afraid it's still either quite buggy or unintuitive.


    Is there some particular dance I have to do using "Store" at just the right time, or something?

    I push the store button 3 times after every change.

  • The 125% on Windows seem to trigger the problem. For some people everything goes back to normal with 100%. It's not so easy to tell "why" though, so sending reports with as many details as possible is always helpful.

    The actual problem is the lack of scaling in Rig Manager in the first place. Sorry to say but it's true. I made a video showing the problems, different solutions and comparing it with Rig Manager. Please watch and discuss in the thread I created:

    Rig Manager | Windows App Scaling


    Cheers

    Martin

  • I also experienced the crashing of RM while moving a profile from one folder to another. I did send in a ticket, however I think I solved the issue. If you are actively previewing a profile, and try to move it, it causes RM to crash.

  • I also experienced the crashing of RM while moving a profile from one folder to another. I did send in a ticket, however I think I solved the issue. If you are actively previewing a profile, and try to move it, it causes RM to crash.

    That's not "solving" it - that's reproducing it :)

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  • I also experienced the crashing of RM while moving a profile from one folder to another. I did send in a ticket, however I think I solved the issue. If you are actively previewing a profile, and try to move it, it causes RM to crash.

    Yea we discussed such a ticket on Monday - You may not delete/move the preview item with 3.0.82..

    The RM beta was supposed to find flaws in the editor, somehow it feels like we ended up fixing all performance mode issues from the past years instead ?(

    But if you can reproduce bugs with your workflow, now is a good time to send them via support ticket :) And do updates please, the "check for updates" button does not get the RM 3.0 versions at the moment and we are getting reports with the first beta sometimes..

  • kriwat i’m not surprised by that but I am delighted to hear it 😁


    I don’t have mich need for virtual knobs and buttons in the editor. Largely because Kemper got the hardware UI so right the first time round. I think the hardware Ui is a work of genius. For most people the “editor” is going to be a “nice to have” rather than a “need to have”. I know that some people have their KPA out of arms reach (especially true for the Stage) so for a minority of current users (though probably a sizeable and growing minority) the editor will be a very useful feature.


    On the other hand the ability to manage rigs and presets (including cabs and IR) as well as the ability to create, edit and organise Performances and Setlists is really a core “need to have” for the majority of users. The fact that so many people have been reporting bugs related to performance mode probably supports the theory that more people are using this part of the functionality and therefore it needs to be rock solid with a slick intuitive workflow.

    When I heard about the RM3 project and the preset management functionality my immediate reaction was that, if it solved the bugs in performances it would be like my birthday. If it dod that AND delivered preset management it would be like all my birthdays and Xmas arriving at once 😎😎😎😎


    i am delighted to hear that the “editor” Beta has resulted in the team dedicating so much time and effort to fixing performance mode bugs. Hopefully, there will be an amazing and stable platform ready for full release soon.

    For the avoidance of any doubt, I do not mean any of my comments to seem critical or negative about the editor. I understand that some people need it and if it helps just one person then it is a great project. I for one REALLY appreciate all the work you and the rest of the team are doing on this development. You guys are amazing!!!


    thank you


    Alan

  • Apologies if this is stating the obvious, but there are probably 2 main use cases for the Editor:


    1) Studio - where most editing is done via PC and therefore controlling the KPA via a screen is a big step forward

    2) Live - where the editor is used to make setting up performances quicker and more manageable - hence why I have requested the ability to assign stomps to the remote via the editor rather than having to drag out my remote to do it...hint...hint :)


    As I use my KPA 99.99% of the time for live and I only use performance mode, when you introduced the editor, you made it easier to do changes on screen and hence is going to highlight previous bugs, but so grateful you are fixing them :)