How to protect your profiles

  • Most Kemper users understand the amount of time and effort that goes into making good profiles. They frown upon illegal profile selling/trading.

    I think this was the biggest misconception Kemper did when they designed the Profiler software.


    Each Profiler has a unique registration/serial number and it would be easy to build something like a DRM on it.

    This is one reason that Amp-Manufacturer are not happy about and that they don't participate on selling there own Amp-Profiles.

    Right now there are a lot of illegal profiles on the Market, check out eBay and search for "Kemper Profiles" you will see a lot.

  • I think this was the biggest misconception Kemper did when they designed the Profiler software.


    Each Profiler has a unique registration/serial number and it would be easy to build something like a DRM on it.

    This is one reason that Amp-Manufacturer are not happy about and that they don't participate on selling there own Amp-Profiles.

    Right now there are a lot of illegal profiles on the Market, check out eBay and search for "Kemper Profiles" you will see a lot.

    One of the things that should be kept in mind when thinking about why amp manufacturers don't make profiles is the nature of what a profile is. A profile is the tone of one setting that an amp is capable of not the amp. I think you will be more likely to see an amp manufacturer team up with a modeler company like AxeFX or Line 6 where they would be able recreate the amp and not just a setting on an amp. Friedman actually had a partnership with AxeFX for a short time.


    As for protecting your profiles, if you want to protect it, don't share it and don't sell it. If someone wants to sell a profile for profit then they would need to find a way to protect it from the platform they sell it from. They way that the rig exchange works further clears Kemper of wrong doing. I think Kemper would put them in a bad place if they gave their users the ability to copy protect profiles created by copying tones from amp manufacturers.


    Now with all that said, I personally find no need to go find profiles that someone bought and attempted to resell or trade. There are enough great profiles available on rig exchange that there is not need for me to look elsewhere, the search function is great too. I have also bought many profiles from ToneJunky, Michael Britt, LRS and a few others and have never even thought of trying to resell them or trade.

  • I think this was the biggest misconception Kemper did when they designed the Profiler software.


    Each Profiler has a unique registration/serial number and it would be easy to build something like a DRM on it.

    i think the real issue is that Kemper never envisioned a market for commercial profile sellers. They saw the tool as a way to capture your own amp settings. Then they saw it as a way for people to share their profiles rather than develop a business selling them. I’m sure they were surprised by the rise of the commercial profile marketed and if they had realised it would happen they may have built in protection at outset.

  • It's better let this market openned. if you are 2 or 3 KPA ? if you duplicate rig for u ? if you modify the Stack ? where are the limit ? who can sell rigs in the futur KemperStore ?

    If people arrives to sell rigs, that's good for they. Share it's better or keep the rigs for themself. today the regulation of the market is the experience of artists them-self and how profiles are used.

  • I agree. Too bad that it is way too easy for someone to buy a pack of profiles and put it on Rig Exchange for all to download for free. But it’s the name of the game. Kemper has made a product and the responsibility lies with the profile sellers. They knew this getting into the market of selling profiles. But it would be cool to be able to block people from sharing bought profiles to respect the people making an effort to make these profiles under better circumstances than what normal people could.

  • It’s a non-issue imo. How many commercial profiles have been uploaded to rm?


    I highly prefer Kempers approach. Sharing is free, buying is optional. You can easily make your own profiles and decide for yourself. Not everything has to be a business. 8o

  • DRM didn’t work for the largest companies in the world. It’s fantasy to think it could work here.


    Were Kemper to lock or ‘DRM’ Profiles a whole bunch of nonsense would ensue.


    I mean.....Apple, Google, Amazon and the record companies were *so* successful at it. So much so they haven’t bothered with it for a decade. Which was well before Kemper release the first KPA.


    But, Kemper would totally do better. ?


    Guaranteed: Amp makers would want a piece of every profile sold using their equipment and they’d expect Kemper find a way to enforce it. Sellers would demand enforcement and a way to track. I could even see mic, pedal and speaker makers insisting on compensation. Why not DRM impulse response files?


    1. Nobody *actually* cares.
    2. Even if they did there is no practical method to enforce it.

    3. Nobody *actually* cares.


    Profiles wouldn’t be $35 for a pack. (Like the ones made Dr. Z himself and sold on their website. But amp makers would never.....?)


    They’d be $35 for one. Want a genuine Klon in front? Add $5. Used a Celestion (who sell their own IRs, DRM-free)? Another $5, please....


    The whole idea of rights management here is laughable. Even if billions of dollars were at stake, it wouldn’t (and didn’t) work.

    “Without music, life would be a mistake.” - Friedrich Nietzsche

  • Maybe a "stoopid" question, but is it even possible to upload

    someone elses Rig´s on RE ? Everybody has their own "Author name"

    in their KPA´s and that name is forever stuck to the profiles made on that

    specific KPA , right ?? You can rename Rigs but not the Authors name .... Right ????


    Correct me if I´m wrong :pinch:


    And even if it´s possible , why ? For peanuts ..... Want some extra money? Sell fake Rolex´s .....

    ( NO ! Don´t do it , THAT´s a crime ! It´s a JOKE ! ) :P


    Cheers !

  • Guaranteed: Amp makers would want a piece of every profile sold using their equipment and they’d expect Kemper find a way to enforce it. Sellers would demand enforcement and a way to track. I could even see mic, pedal and speaker makers insisting on compensation. Why not DRM impulse response files?


    This is also is a huge point. If Kemper had to pay out to every manufacturer the cost of every Kemper would sky rocket.

  • 1. I would care.

    2. The profilers would care.

    3. I would care.


    I am all for protection of people’s rights and their work. But okay....I’m also the kinda person who follows the law as much as humanly possible. I don’t know about others. My common sense says no. I believe that people should be paid for their music, their movie, their paintings, their crafts, their service etc. To me this is no different than an artist making a record and people just download it for free and don’t give a rats arse. I do respect the choice from Kemper though. They want this to be a community based on sharing and helping each other. They also, by doing it this way, make sure that nobody can hold Kemper responsible.


    - Would amp makers try to claim rights to Kemper profiles made of their product and being used buy someone else to earn a buck? Quite possibly.

    - Would they fail attempting? Quite possibly. I would like to believe that they already contacted their lawyers several years ago, when Kemper claimed world domination, and they got an answer, that they didn’t like. You cannot claim rights to something digitally made that has nothing what so ever to do with your own product. Only your brand name, logo and sayings that are connected to your brand etc., is under protection of copyright. You cannot claim the rights to a sound on a record, where your product has been used. It’s now something else entirely.

    - Would people try to avoid paying? Yes, quite possibly. Some will create a solution that will work around it.

    - Would Kemper lose money? I don’t believe so. Rig Exchange is still amazing and the profiling is amazing. So what could Kemper possibly lose by this? Nothing as I see it. But the question is rather this; What would they gain? Quite possibly nothing. So it’s never gonna happen no matter how much people would like it.

  • 1. I would care.


    ....I’m also the kinda person who follows the law as much as humanly possible.

    Good for you. Are you implying I or others aren’t law abiding? If so, that’s one enormous (and totally erroneous) assumption.


    You would care? About DRM? Really? Because that is what I referenced. Not ‘stealing’ commercial property.


    Nobody cares about DRM anymore, because it’s proven unworkable and unnecessary. Otherwise Apple and its trillions would never have removed DRM back in 2009. Six years before they offered a streaming alternative.

    “Without music, life would be a mistake.” - Friedrich Nietzsche

  • I change all the profile I buy or on rig exchange anyway eq fx etc and they all end up sounding very different

    The issue isn't changing them after-the-fact.

    You can dress it up, but the core profile you start with cannot be altered. That involves a great deal of time, effort and know-how to create. The concern is passing work off as your own when it isn't, or giving away (or selling) someone else's commercial profile.

    “Without music, life would be a mistake.” - Friedrich Nietzsche

  • The issue isn't changing them after-the-fact.

    You can dress it up, but the core profile you start with cannot be altered. That involves a great deal of time, effort and know-how to create. The concern is passing work off as your own when it isn't, or giving away (or selling) someone else's commercial profile.

    Oh sorry man

  • Good for you. Are you implying I or others aren’t law abiding? If so, that’s one enormous (and totally erroneous) assumption.


    You would care? About DRM? Really? Because that is what I referenced. Not ‘stealing’ commercial property.


    Nobody cares about DRM anymore, because it’s proven unworkable and unnecessary. Otherwise Apple and its trillions would never have removed DRM back in 2009. Six years before they offered a streaming alternative.

    Wrong asumption from you I believe. I stated “as humanly possible”. That means, that I presume, that I go by the rules more than most people. I know for a fact that most people I know, who are so-called law abiding citizens, somewhere and somehow bend the rules a bit to their favor. Be it moonlighting (not paying taxes), not stopping at yellow light (like you have to in Denmark where yellow light practically is the same as the red light), sharing streaming services, walking a red light even if no cars are nearby, buying illegally imported stuff like cigarettes, beers etc, downloading stuff that should be payed for etc. The “little things” that most people just don’t care about. I do care, but I don’t act policeman either and correct other people. Why should anyone be different than most people I’ve met? I have very high standard regarding the law and follow it more than most people. Anyway....I don’t accuse anyone. Only implying that I try to do everything by the book and no one else I’ve ever met can say the same. Perhaps you are my 100% law abiding Kemper brother ;) . When my common sense says no, it is based upon my experience that most people follow most rules, but bend it sometimes, because we, as humans, have a tendency to be able to convince ourselves that it’s just a minor misdemeanor and it doesn’t matter if I brake this rule. And I also stated that I didn’t know about others. I assume. That’s a big difference. Anyway....this is not something that this topic should focus on, in my opinion. But if you somehow feel hurt, it was certainly not my intention.


    I’ve never proclaimed that this is something that can be universally solved by DRM. But I believe that it’s the right thing to do, none the less. And DRM is all about protection of commercial property. So yes....I care.