How to protect your profiles

  • Wrong asumption from you I believe. I stated “as humanly possible”. That means, that I presume, that I go by the rules more than most people. I know for a fact that most people I know, who are so-called law abiding citizens, somewhere and somehow bend the rules a bit to their favor. Be it moonlighting (not paying taxes), not stopping at yellow light (like you have to in Denmark where yellow light practically is the same as the red light), sharing streaming services, walking a red light even if no cars are nearby, buying illegally imported stuff like cigarettes, beers etc, downloading stuff that should be payed for etc. The “little things” that so-called normal people just don’t care about. I do care, but I don’t act policeman either and correct other people. Why should anyone be different than most people I’ve met? I have very high standard regarding the law and follow it more than most people. Anyway....I don’t accuse anyone. Only implying that I try to do everything by the book and no one else I’ve ever met can say the same. Perhaps you are my 100% law abiding Kemper brother ;) . When my common sense says no, it is based upon my experience that most people follow most rules, but bend it sometimes, because we, as humans, have a tendency to be able to convince ourselves that it’s just a minor misdemeanor and it doesn’t matter if I brake this rule. And I also stated that I didn’t know about others. I assume. That’s a big difference. Anyway....this is not something that this topic should focus on, in my opinion. But if you somehow feel hurt, it was certainly not my intention.


    I’ve never proclaimed that this is something that can be universally solved by DRM. But I believe that it’s the right thing to do, none the less. And DRM is all about protection of commercial property. So yes....I care.

    We’ll agree to disagree.


    I believe you’re suggesting a solution be found to a problem that doesn’t exist. Are there pirates? Yep.


    Can you stop them? Nope.

    “Without music, life would be a mistake.” - Friedrich Nietzsche

  • Maybe a little off topic , but not much ..... :/

    What do you guys think about bands playing covers

    without paying royalties to the composer / owner

    of the songs ?

    And copying other guitarist sound and solos ?

    ( Although it will never sound exactly the same )

    Impressions and influences , OK , that´s how we learn

    and develop ..... but copying ....


    Cheers !

    The adjective for metal is metallic. But not so for iron ... which is ironic.

  • ***(sarcasm alert)***


    Maybe Kemper should release a Pro Profiler. This profiler would be exactly the same as the normal one but be made specifically to allow others to make money off of kemper's (and amp manufacture's) design. It would cost 10x more than the regular one. Oh, even better, the Kemper ilok.<X Sorry, you're not online at the moment, you can't use that profile.


    ***(sarcasm alert off)***


    In all seriousness, Kemper did not make a product for you to make money selling profiles. That ended up being a by product of their work. You can make money selling profiles (and some have made A LOT of money), but you have the same risk as selling your own music any where, some people MAY copy and trade them.


    The real question is a profile really yours to copyright? This has already been argued on these forums though and I'm too lazy to use search and find the post for you though.

  • If anyone uploads commercial profiles to Rig Exchange, they will have to use a registered profiler serial number and their email. Once they get caught doing it they will be in a world of trouble. I think a lot of Kemper users know that pirating profiles is massively counterproductive for such a small niche group of owners that they risk stopping the development of future profile packs if they did pirate. I buy my own and won't ever share them because I know the value of the work put into them and I want to make sure that continues...

  • We’ll agree to disagree.


    I believe you’re suggesting a solution be found to a problem that doesn’t exist. Are there pirates? Yep.


    Can you stop them? Nope.

    I’m confused then. Where do I suggest an universal solution to DRM? Nowhere as far as I’m aware. I’m all about rights and getting payed what’s fair. You disagree yes. But to the fact that you and I don’t see stealing digital music etc the same way. To me it IS a huge problem and not fair to the people not getting paid. The Napster guy said himself. Lars Ulrich was right back then. So yes....I would like it to be solved. Do I think it’s possible? Probably not very likely. That doesn’t change the fact that I think it is wrong. I have no solution, though you think I suggest such a thing. You are giving me way too much credit for brain activity ;)

  • I’m confused then. Where do I suggest an universal solution to DRM? Nowhere as far as I’m aware. I’m all about rights and getting payed what’s fair. You disagree yes. But to the fact that you and I don’t see stealing digital music etc the same way. To me it IS a huge problem and not fair to the people not getting paid. The Napster guy said himself. Lars Ulrich was right back then. So yes....I would like it to be solved. Do I think it’s possible? Probably not very likely. That doesn’t change the fact that I think it is wrong. I have no solution, though you think I suggest such a thing. You are giving me way too much credit for brain activity ;)

    Nowhere did I suggest people shouldn’t get paid.


    Find it.

    “Without music, life would be a mistake.” - Friedrich Nietzsche

  • I am all for protection of people’s rights and their work. But okay....I’m also the kinda person who follows the law as much as humanly possible. I don’t know about others. My common sense says no. I believe that people should be paid for their music, their movie, their paintings, their crafts, their service etc. To me this is no different than an artist making a record and people just download it for free and don’t give a rats arse.

    You are not alone.


    Another member sent me a Rig once with effects he had set up for a specific song. When I got it I noticed the underlying profile was actually an Amp Factory profile. So I went and bought the original profile pack from the Amp Factory website to keep my

    conscience clean.


    There have been plenty of cases of people being banned from this forum for sharing commercial profiles or stating aggressively that it is their right to share anything the want regardless of who owns it. Nothing is perfect but I still have more faith in humanity than I do in copyright protection.

  • As I understand it, Kemper states that it’s not alright to do so and within RE they actually can make a difference and fight this. But when people make their own links to rigs of their own and don’t use RE, the possibility is far greater for those to avoid being caught.

  • Nothing is perfect but I still have more faith in humanity than I do in copyright protection.

    That's a good one. I see it the same way and to my impression DRM systems have never worked well in terms of acceptance, ease of use and so on. As much as I understand the desire to protect digital assets.


    For the Kemper stuff I think the community who can afford this machine is mostly mature enough to appreciate the effort of profile makers who do not want to share for free. Prices for most of the stuff are reasonable and unless you want to buy everything on the market it should be easily possible to afford what you want and need. I saw some commercial profiles on the RE some time ago and they were very quickly removed. Good thing to keep RE clean and I think the Kemper team makes a great job there as well.


    Finally: There will always be black sheep who try to mess around with other people's intellectual or digital property. To my impression that's rather limited in the Kemper universe and that's good like it is.

  • I know this will be an unpopular opinion, but I see nothing wrong with sharing paid profiles (or music/movies/shows for that matter), as long as you do it as a try-before-you-buy kinda thing. If you like it AND will be using it, then go out and buy the pack it came from.

    Yes, I may have dropped around $2k for a profiler, but that sure as shit doesn't mean I have the $$ to drop 50 here and there until I find the right profile for me.

    I think this is good for the producers as well. It helps to introduce them to ppl that may have never heard of them, or introduce someone to a product of theirs which would never have been on a consumers radar. If I spend $$ buying a pack which, to me at least, sounds like crap, and I can't return it, I'm not gonna risk spending more money on another one. But what if my ultimate profile is in another pack? We both lose out.

    Plus, if you want to get philosophical about it, can the producers even claim a copyright for something like this? Just b/c I drew a copy of a Picasso doesn't mean that I have any legal claim to the $ someone made photocopying it and selling it on. Should Xerox get a bite of the profits? Should Picassos' estate be getting a bite too? If I tweak a profile of a Hagen running through Spawn 2x12 to make it sound more like my setup, isn't that now my creation and I'm free to do it with it as I please? I'm not a copyright lawyer so don't get on me on this, its just playing devils advocate here.

    Yes, some folks will inevitably just torrent and not buy, but tough shit. It's gonna happen, learn to make the best of it. Just b/c you can make money selling profiles, doesn't mean that you can, should or will.

  • Y’know...... has anyone ever seen a copyright claim on a commercial profile? I haven’t.


    Beyond “please don’t share”, are these profiles ever considered intellectual or digital property?


    Forget ‘right and wrong’ for the moment. Calling these digital or intellectual property simply isn’t accurate. All of this is literally based on the honor system.

    “Without music, life would be a mistake.” - Friedrich Nietzsche

  • If I spend $$ buying a pack which, to me at least, sounds like crap, and I can't return it, I'm not gonna risk spending more money on another one

    What if you spend $$ buying a book and don't like the plot / the information on page 102/103? You gonna return it? Or you stop buying books from this author? There's always a little risk in buying things :)


    Calling these digital or intellectual property simply isn’t accurate.

    I see your point here Ruefus. Nevertheless I still consider them as that as the one doing it puts effort, equipment and finally knowledge on how to do it in the final result, ie the profile. And especially the latter contributes to intellectual property at least.

  • I have no issue with the concept of effort invested, value created and the buyer honoring that by not giving it away.


    But I do not think the makers themselves have any legal standing should someone decide to share profiles.


    Let’s also all be honest with ourselves and not take a holier-than-thou approach. We’ve all got music or image files we should have paid for but didn’t. Some people run software they don’t actually own.


    It’s not a victimless crime, but nor is anyone truly immune here.

    “Without music, life would be a mistake.” - Friedrich Nietzsche

    Edited once, last by Ruefus ().

  • Let’s also all be honest with ourselves and not take a holier-than-thou approach.

    Pragmatic world view and honest indeed. I am fine with that and surely guilty of one or the other thing you describe (back in the times of hometaping for sure ^^). Still I'n trying to make my kids aware that not everything which comes from "the net" is necessarily for free. Balance rules :)

  • Back in the day the industry complained when cassettes were launched. Ppl could record songs from the radio instead of buying the ep. I did like all kids did then. So i can see Reufus point. Copy protection won't work but still dev's claim e.g. Ilok is for. Everybody that use software plugins know that is utter bs today. Warez users just download and install. Others like me who have paid plugins need to use ilok for certain plugins. Waves installer program and other similar. Some updates with ilok won't work and I have to go thru the hassle of going back to the last update again that worked because no Ilok plugins work with the newest update. :rolleyes: X(The same can happen with waves installer program. They don't make it easy for us paying customers.

    Think for yourself, or others will think for you wihout thinking of you

    Henry David Thoreau

  • Yeah....I will just ask my carpenter or bricklayer to do a job for me. And then I will see if I like it and wish to pay for the work that has been done. Sounds reasonable.


  • Let’s also all be honest with ourselves and not take a holier-than-thou approach. We’ve all got music or image files we should have paid for but didn’t. Some people run software they don’t actually own.


    It’s not a victimless crime, but nor is anyone truly immune here.

    Wrong....what can I say :saint:

  • Yeah....I will just ask my carpenter or bricklayer to do a job for me. And then I will see if I like it and wish to pay for the work that has been done. Sounds reasonable.

    So not a relevant comparison.

    But....you also consider yourself an angel (?). Which.....??

    “Without music, life would be a mistake.” - Friedrich Nietzsche