Neural Quad Cortex

  • the proof is the multitude of cocked wah threads in this forum alone. It doesn't look like the fix is coming any time soon. However, I don't need for the profiles to be 100 percent accurate. They just need to sound great and some do.

    When I hear someone mention "cocked wah" I think Boss GT-10. When I first got my shiny new GT-10 I brought it to practice, after the first couple of riffs the other guitar player said "is your wah stuck on"? Ever since then that GT-10 cocked wah was stuck in my head and I hated it, I could never get rid of it when the preset had any moderate amount of gain. That being said and based on that perspective I've heard no cocked wah in the Kemper.

  • why do the palm mutes act like that? Seems a fair few db quieter

    I'd like to do another video demonstrating the phenomenon with all of amps. Because it's been pretty common for me over the last 10 years of on-and-off Kemper ownership and profiling. I remember it being a big discussion back in the day, and it sort of petered out. But I never stopped noticing it.

  • As I player I get you, most of the time we discard profiles that are not just "there", but once you get picky about the tone and dynamics you like, these parameters matter more and more. When testing a profile, I try basic EQing, and after that, some definition and clarity. If it doesnt get me, the love ends there. But if it does, and I feel that it needs a bit of sag, or the saturation can get more raw, then I go and delve deeper. Not having that option would limit my gallery to maybe 8 or 9 profiles that are almost perfect from the beginning.


    And for my surprise, most professional profilers I use, actually have these settings tweaked a lot. It all started when I tried rmpacheco morgan amp, the first thing I notice was the treble boost and wild amp parameters. So I believe these settings matter few for the casual player, but way more to those who actually profile amps.

    As someone who mainly records, I'll tweak a profile rather than dismiss it if I think it's salvageable, and though I'm familiar with the advanced amp parameters, in my case, 9 out of 10 times, they're not the right tool for the job, but like I said, that's me. I have an Axe-Fx III, as well, and of the numerous advanced parameters, I virtually never adjust bias and/or sag. EQ is often my weapon of choice. That and a bit of compression.

  • I have been happy with the Kemper for many years. I've made tons of profiles and every time that I ran into an issue it was either user error, a bad cable or something like that. However, recently I found an amp that the Kemper simply does not want to profile correctly and it's a real bummer. I was told that this is a known limitation, some amps simply can't be profiled correctly. I'm curious to see if the QC has this limitation.

  • I'd like to do another video demonstrating the phenomenon with all of amps. Because it's been pretty common for me over the last 10 years of on-and-off Kemper ownership and profiling. I remember it being a big discussion back in the day, and it sort of petered out. But I never stopped noticing it.

    Have you tried passing this on to ckemper or support? Hard to say if they'd be watching these discussions and unless opened as support issues they might not get drawn in.


    As ckemper had mentioned earlier in this thread -

    If a profile fails in an A/B comparison, that is where my job starts.

  • As someone who mainly records, I'll tweak a profile rather than dismiss it if I think it's salvageable, and though I'm familiar with the advanced amp parameters, in my case, 9 out of 10 times, they're not the right tool for the job, but like I said, that's me. I have an Axe-Fx III, as well, and of the numerous advanced parameters, I virtually never adjust bias and/or sag. EQ is often my weapon of choice. That and a bit of compression.

    Different types of players I guess, I am more a feel guy, it should feel as I like it for me to enjoy it, thats where I put my finger, the amp compression setting, the tube sag and shape, and of course definition, are my most used weapons to get the perfect feel and sound. One example is the Carlos Santana sound, to get it you need extreme amounts of sag and a lot of compression, most profiles dont get there, but with these parameters, I can just get the post woodstock santana sound with my SG in a lot of amps that were saggy to begin with. QC sounds good, lets see if they actually support it in the "kemper way", or is more in line with Helix, adding a couple of new stomps and amps, some bugfixes, each year more or less. I had an Axe in my possesion, and to be honest, its maybe too much in the ways of advanced settings.

  • Just as a note, it took quite a few years for the Kemper to have its firmware developed to where it is now. So comparing the shortcomings of the infant QC to the far more mature Kemper is perhaps not fair. The early QC adopters will need to be ready to absorb the early hardware issues (like the Kemper LED issue) and be patient to wait for the firmware bugs and development to happen. Also it will take a long time for the aftermarket profiles to be available in the quantity and quality we enjoy with the Kemper.


    Another huge comparison; is Neural going to provide the amazing ongoing support that Kemper does? Provide continuous free updates over almost a decade that add amazing new features but do not require a hardware upgrade? Will they come out with a QC MkII in a year or so and abandon the old platform?


    And a big but not insignificant question (and my apologies if this is off base in any way); how badly is the QC infringing on Kemper's patents, if at all? I sure hope they're not, as that can be a massive mess and money sink for any company.


    I've had a Kemper toaster for over 5 years, and just recently bought a Stage. I am still floored every time I turn the unit on. It's the first unit I have used that is like a magic canvas of tone; I can get anything I can think up out of it and more. And on top of this, it just sounds luscious through every PA and recording desk I use it with. I have no desire to try any other modeler or profiler except for simple curiosity; the Kemper simply has it all covered. I suspect I'm not the only user that feels this way.

  • I might be wrong, but bear in mind the kemper still seems to have a different approach, which is using a basis to adjust parameters and get the model. Neural networks on the other hand do not use that, they create the networks trough learning, and after that, you are pretty much set on the behavior of the capture. This might restrict the flexibility required to adjust dynamics or transient responses. But yeah, might be wrong, lets wait.

    Neural networks just figure out a bunch of parameter sets to feed a model. These parameters can be very sophisticated. They don't create the model. it should be possible to expose some of the model parameters to the user.

  • Neural networks just figure out a bunch of parameter sets to feed a model. These parameters can be very sophisticated. They don't create the model. it should be possible to expose some of the model parameters to the user.

    I don't agree . This is kind of complex convolution on several layers. Neural networks trying to recursive deconvolute output signal. I doubt you can create some kind of parameter from those layers (each time different) . But who knows.

  • Neural networks just figure out a bunch of parameter sets to feed a model. These parameters can be very sophisticated. They don't create the model. it should be possible to expose some of the model parameters to the user.

    That we dont know, they could be using a fuzzy neural network, where you can assign the weight to each module (feedback), and that way you could technically use the same modules to modify parameters. But most neural networks are not that customizable, as they only create a set of modules that by themselves have not a direct translation to what we might want to control. The correct way to actually have control over very specific parameters is, for example, that you make a network for each parameter (one for transient responses for example, another for clipping/saturation behaviour, and so on so forth) and you train them at the same time so you can later modify gain/amplitude and time response for each of them. I seeeeriously doubt thats the case, but again, I will wait and se what can they achieve with updates. I believe they will focus on interface, models and fx before doing anything to the capture function, but who knows....

  • I wouldn’t assume anything will change with how much control is given to users on the QC. It’s so easy to assume that manufacturers have the same vision as their customers but they don’t at all. They may say “this is it, in 3 years there will be OctaCortex”. And then there may be no difference there and everyone will complain about rationing features. Or they may be very responsive and change it all. I guess the question is, how responsive have they been with their plugins?


    If anyone buys the QC then they need to buy it for what it is now, not what it could potentially be in a few years time. Otherwise it’s a recipe for customer disappointment.

    There’s a huge amount of hype right now but I do have to admit I was more impressed by the clean and low gain than the high gains samples I heard. They had good clarity and sounded more like the clean sounds I’m used to from real amps, and I feel it’s an area where the Kemper sounds more like a DI than the amp itself and tends to not dirty up with quote the same snarl whe digging in, however I’m sure that’s a hop skip and a jump away if Christoph felt it needed to be addressed, the SLO clean example in particular sounded great on the QC.


    The big problem I have though is all the videos compare the QC to the Kemper but not the real amp. It’s super annoying because you can’t determine which is closer to the real amp, only which you prefer the sound of and a certain production sheen may sound better in isolation but you can’t get rid of it and sculpt the sound as much as something that’s just true to the source.


    I am interested in how it does it’s cab and the ability to set up different mics. If it’s just an IR loader that ignores your real cab’s sound then bugger that. If instead it can separate cab from amp as the Kemper does and also allow you to virtually change the mic you used originally keeping your own cab and room in the picture then that would be impressive.

  • And a big but not insignificant question (and my apologies if this is off base in any way); how badly is the QC infringing on Kemper's patents, if at all? I sure hope they're not, as that can be a massive mess and money sink for any company.

    I dont think so, for the few we know on how kemper works, it is a different technik with a similar aproach, and IF by any reason there is a patent issue, dont worry, we will know pretty soon as QC gets to the stores.

  • Provide continuous free updates over almost a decade that add amazing new features but do not require a hardware upgrade? Will they come out with a QC MkII in a year or so and abandon the old platform?

    I don't really understand why you referenced "free" with regard to firmware updates. No modeling company I'm aware of currently charges for updates.

  • I don't really understand why you referenced "free" with regard to firmware updates. No modeling company I'm aware of currently charges for updates.

    There was a time when videogames had free updates and patches with new features, then EA happened. Please dont give them ideas, or they might charge for stomps or added features. Is a valid concern, also after hearing that the plini and other models might be paid and not free.

  • There was a time when videogames had free updates and patches with new features, then EA happened. Please dont give them ideas, or they might charge for stomps or added features. Is a valid concern, also after hearing that the plini and other models might be paid and not free.

    Video games are a completely different market. However, modeling companies don't charge for updates. I don't know that they ever have.