The New Kemper Kone

  • What you get from current FRFR solutions is the sound of a mic'd cabinet. IRs always include the response from the microphone along with the speaker. A speaker with a SM57 alone will sound different than one mic'd with a 57 and a ribbon mic, which will sound different if you add a room mic. They're all the same speaker, but you will get *wildly* different results.

    The Kone is meant to give you the sound of *just* the speaker in a cabinet. The same as you would with a regular amp and speaker.

    To me, the Kone makes direct profiles more valuable. You can remove the cabinet from a merged profile and it'll work great. But having an amp-only profile coupled with the Kone? That should be epic.

    That all makes sense. Very interesting. Now I think it could be a great step forward.


    What happens when playing live? I guess not a mike to the Kone.


    So what do you send to the mixer? That signal needs some kind of guitar speaker emulation, too.


    Thank you very much, Ruefus.

  • I'm sure you can send the signal with normal full IR to the FOH

  • CK has just opened a thread on the subject.


    In it it does say not suitable for close miking, so you are correct. The speaker emulation comes from the KPA so I assume the "kone" bit...

  • As I get it you will use the monitor out or speaker out to send the signal to the Kone. Here you can remove the cab emulation and apply speaker impressions so you get that nice speaker sound on your stage cab. To FOH you use the main output for which cabinet emulation will be used and not the speaker impression.

  • UGH!!! For those of you who were thinking of doing the same thing as me...


    I was hoping to use the Kone with my RARELY (never) used Tech 21 Power Engine. (The old one, not the Deuce) The manual stated that a speaker impedance of 8 Ohm was optimum.


    I emailed their tech support about using a 4 Ohm speaker (the Kone only comes in 4 Ohm). The reply was...


    "We don't recommend running the unit at 4 ohms as it will cause it to overheat."


    :cursing:

    The key to everything is patience.
    You get the chicken by hatching the egg, not by smashing it.
    -- Arnold H. Glasow


    If it doesn't produce results, don't do it.

    -- Me

    Edited once, last by HCarlH ().

  • Having the same idea with XiTone MBritt cab. I looked up the amp specs and it does support 4ohm. Fingers crossed...

  • Crap.

  • I wonder how well the Kone software would work with the 8 Ohm Celestion version:

    (This whole deal reminds me of the Emagic/Mackie collaboration over the Logic Control - and the release of the Mackie Control shortly afterwards.)


    Here is the 8 Ohm Celestion K12H-200TC

    https://celestion.com/product/138/k12h200tc/


    There is also a 100 W version:

    https://celestion.com/product/139/k12h100tc/


    The 200w product is shown as having sensitivity of 98dB (at 1 watt) while the 100 W version has 97 dB efficiency rating.


    Both have a 50oz magnet (1.4 kG weight) but the voice coil is 1.75 in for the 100W and 2.0 inch for the 200 W.


    Here is a commercial listing with pricing:


    https://www.parts-express.com/…XfD_BwE#lblProductDetails

  • I have all sorts of odd-ball amps and cabs and find the Weber Z-matcher invaluable. Pricey solution, but I don't see why I wouldn't work for the Kone. It's a great gadget to have, probably my most borrowed piece of gear

  • I have all sorts of odd-ball amps and cabs and find the Weber Z-matcher invaluable. Pricey solution, but I don't see why I wouldn't work for the Kone. It's a great gadget to have, probably my most borrowed piece of gear

    That's a cool piece of gear! I'd buy if it was 1/2 the price.; too pricey when the end result is to use with my Power Engine. Time to sell the Power Engine since it's useless for my needs.

    The key to everything is patience.
    You get the chicken by hatching the egg, not by smashing it.
    -- Arnold H. Glasow


    If it doesn't produce results, don't do it.

    -- Me

  • That's a cool piece of gear! I'd buy if it was 1/2 the price.; too pricey when the end result is to use with my Power Engine. Time to sell the Power Engine since it's useless for my needs.

    You can get a used one under $100. Yup, still expensive and another piece of gear to haul around but it's built like a tank and will last a lifetime

  • What you get from current FRFR solutions is the sound of a mic'd cabinet. IRs always include the response from the microphone along with the speaker. A speaker with a SM57 alone will sound different than one mic'd with a 57 and a ribbon mic, which will sound different if you add a room mic. They're all the same speaker, but you will get *wildly* different results.

    The Kone is meant to give you the sound of *just* the speaker in a cabinet. The same as you would with a regular amp and speaker.

    To me, the Kone makes direct profiles more valuable. You can remove the cabinet from a merged profile and it'll work great. But having an amp-only profile coupled with the Kone? That should be epic.

    I've never really understood the appeal of the "amp in the room" thing if you're into modeling. We spend a lot of time and money finding the correct profiles that provide that perfect mic'd up sound that we're used to hearing on our favorite recordings. Everybody wants Eddie's tone...or Stevie's tone...or Angus' tone...or whoever you like. But those classic tones are mic'd up sounds.


    Why the desire to hear something different than what the audience hears?

  • I've never really understood the appeal of the "amp in the room" thing if you're into modeling. We spend a lot of time and money finding the correct profiles that provide that perfect mic'd up sound that we're used to hearing on our favorite recordings. Everybody wants Eddie's tone...or Stevie's tone...or Angus' tone...or whoever you like. But those classic tones are mic'd up sounds.


    Why the desire to hear something different than what the audience hears?


    It's more use in a situation where you are just going direct into a cab at a small jam or whatever. Plus, even practising solo, I prefer the sound through a cabinet to going through my studio monitors.

  • I've never really understood the appeal of the "amp in the room" thing if you're into modeling. We spend a lot of time and money finding the correct profiles that provide that perfect mic'd up sound that we're used to hearing on our favorite recordings. Everybody wants Eddie's tone...or Stevie's tone...or Angus' tone...or whoever you like. But those classic tones are mic'd up sounds.


    Why the desire to hear something different than what the audience hears?

    It's pretty obvious I would've thought, but we've all grown up playing through guitar amps, not hifi speakers, P.A. speakers or studio monitors. Playing a real guitar amp is far better sounding than any recording coming from your hifi speakers. The fact that SRV doesn't sound the same on your home stereo as if he was in the room with you is a limitation of the recording process and a desire to make recorded music radio friendly, more so than trying to make a recorded guitar sound different from an actual amp in the room, that's my thoughts anyway :)

  • I've never really understood the appeal of the "amp in the room" thing if you're into modeling. We spend a lot of time and money finding the correct profiles that provide that perfect mic'd up sound that we're used to hearing on our favorite recordings. Everybody wants Eddie's tone...or Stevie's tone...or Angus' tone...or whoever you like. But those classic tones are mic'd up sounds.


    Why the desire to hear something different than what the audience hears?

    I want both.

  • What you get from current FRFR solutions is the sound of a mic'd cabinet. IRs always include the response from the microphone along with the speaker. A speaker with a SM57 alone will sound different than one mic'd with a 57 and a ribbon mic, which will sound different if you add a room mic. They're all the same speaker, but you will get *wildly* different results.

    The Kone is meant to give you the sound of *just* the speaker in a cabinet. The same as you would with a regular amp and speaker.

    To me, the Kone makes direct profiles more valuable. You can remove the cabinet from a merged profile and it'll work great. But having an amp-only profile coupled with the Kone? That should be epic.


    Hello Ruefus,


    Assuming the Merged profile was properly made...i.e., the original author followed the correct procedure of making a Direct Amp profile as well as a Studio profile (with mic'd cabinet), and then initiated the "Merge" function...well, then turning off the Cabinet section on a Merged profile gives you an "amp-only" profile. That is exactly what a Merged Profile is intended for.


    We can assume all the top commercial profilers have done their due diligence, in this regards, when selling profile packs featuring Merged Profiles.

  • Playing a real guitar amp is far better sounding than any recording coming from your hifi speakers.

    I respect your opinion but I’ve sold a whole lot of high end tube amps that I played sitting in the room with me. Now I’m down to a Kemper, AX8, studio monitors and a FRFR cab. I’ve played both with a loud rock band and have never once thought it was a compromise. Some people would consider the amp in the room sound muddy on one end or harsh on the other. I’m one of them.

  • I respect your opinion but I’ve sold a whole lot of high end tube amps that I played sitting in the room with me. Now I’m down to a Kemper, AX8, studio monitors and a FRFR cab. I’ve played both with a loud rock band and have never once thought it was a compromise. Some people would consider the amp in the room sound muddy on one end or harsh on the other. I’m one of them.

    After owning the Kemper for a week I sold every single tube amp I owned. That was a couple of years ago. I regret nothing.


    While I'm not gigging these days, I have the luxury of being able to play gig volume at home. I'd been through a number of Line 6 offerings that were good, but it always felt like I was missing something. I'm not getting that feeling with the Kemper. Of course, guitar is an extremely personal thing so there's never going to be something that works for everyone. I'm just happy that it works for me.


    An interesting side note about SRV and home stereo versus live is his CD from Carnegie Hall. I'm a big fan of his work but that's got to be the most horrendous sounding mix I've ever heard in my life. I doubt seriously that it was any better if you were there, in the room. Carnegie Hall was designed for acoustic instruments, not rock bands. Benny Goodman's performance there? Outstanding. A loud blues rock trio? Very, very bad idea.


    And that's one of the things I like about my Kemper. I'm not after the amp in the room sound, because often the room does you no favors at all, as everyone who's played a crappy bar with bad acoustics can attest. I'm after the sound on the record, and that's exactly what I get.


    Of course, being a hippie from the 70s, I had the obligatory, "If it feels good, do it" t-shirt, and I think the opposite also applies. If there's something from the sound of an amp in the room you can't get out of the Kemper, tube amps may well be your best solution. There's a whole lot of good stuff out there these days, no matter what your preference happens to be.

  • I think it’s a matter of what you are used to. The guitarist who learns his art on a kemper etc is probably starting from a better situation because he never Spent years playing with the amp in the room sound. He therefore never has a problem. The other guy( like me). Spent many years playing the amp in the room. To folks who regard it as a bar band sound. It took a long time to get used to playing without that amp in the room sound to play to what everyone else considers to be a much more professional sound.

  • ...to what everyone else considers to be a much more professional sound.

    What is that even supposed to mean? "Professionals" use all kinds of sounds and using a Kemper/modeller doesn't make us special snowflakes. Go tell Scott Henderson or Joe Bonamassa how "unprofessional" they sound through their rigs. Make no mistake, the appeal of Kemper/modellers still mostly lies in their convenience factor.