Kone & Kabinet Q&A

  • You are cementing pure marketing terms like FRFR and GRFR by assigning them to technologies.

    We'll have unavoidably to deal with those terms... my post was meant to rationalise some aspects of things that, IME, create some confusion by many electric guitar players. I believe this is better that letting people use the terms with no consistency...
    Anyway, the interpretation I am offering seems practical and "ordering" (so to speak) to me. Since, as we agree, there's no scientific background for this nomenclature, some may well disagree with it. But I find it rational nevertheless :)
    Of course, as any "scientific" proposal, I am open to discussion ;)



    GRFR is on top of that. "Guitar Frequency Full Responce" does not make too much sense.


    With the premise that the acronym would be Guitar Range - Flat response it does, actually IMO. A cab such as Red Sound's LG-12 uses a mid-woofer whose passing band is broader that most typical guitar-oriented ones, and - according to manufacturer - is more linear (whether this is true or not in the specific case is of course not important for the discussion). While a better and more accurate lettering would be Flatter Response, a mid-woofer reasonably flat in the guitar range (60-12k?) is what such designs are based on, and represents the real difference/novelty with respect to traditional guitar cabinets. A broader and flatter response than a guitar-oriented mid-woofer allows to profitably make use of cabinets IRs/profiles, which would not be properly rendered by a traditional solution. At the same time, the use of a speaker that's limited in band (Vs. say a 2-way cabinet) solves a number of issues for the final user (the electric guitar player), who most of times doesn't know hot to sculpture their tone in order for the model/profile to sound good, or seems anyway unsatisfied with the final result.
    Eliminating the tweeter but using a broader-band, flatter response mid-woofer than a guitar-oriented one (finding a different compromise for the short blanket, so to speak) offers the modellers/profile users a solution that, AFAIK, was not previously available, and that has found its commercial reason in the crowd of those players who wanted to use their digital devices to their fullest (that is, properly rendering the IR/cab profile) but were unsatisfied by the way a linear ad transparent solution returned the tones.


    Broadband means a speaker without tweeter. (Fullrange is an independent term)


    Not all mid-woofers have the same passing band tho. So there are ones with a broader band than others, and certainly a 50-12k response is more functional to a modeller than a 60-9k, and - provided that there's a reasonable linearity - makes it sound better (meaning, more faithfully to the original modelled/profiled tone).



    the radiation pattern of broadband speakers with whizzer cone (such as ours, or from RedSound) is not really different to existing two-way speakers that are marketed to guitarists


    When I say that the Kone has a narrower diffusion pattern I am not comparing it with a guitar-oriented solution, but to a fully linear system. You yourself have confirmed that in several places, and it makes sense in the context of its design and purposes (for example here: «the guitar-speaker-like dispersion will make your cabinets appear different to a regular PA»).



    Saying that de-facto there is no FRFR speaker out there shows the absurd aspect of this name and its false interpretation.


    This is exactly what I am pointing out :) In order to get full linearity in the audio range, a two-way system is required as a minimum, because - and AFAIK - there's no single speaker able to cover the full audio range with a reasonable linearity.
    That's why I specified that the term is commonly used in two ways, and that creates confusion.



    "The Kone is no exception, and the fact it renders the CITR tone comes, among other things, from its limited band."

    How do you get to this conclusion?


    The comparison is with Celestion's 2-way coaxial speaker.
    My point is that a limited band is one of the elements that make a guitar cabinet sound in its peculiar way, a way sought after by so many electric guitarists. Diffusion pattern being the same, a speaker with a limited band focuses its emission energy in the range the electric guitar player likes the most (they call it punch, or improperly moving air). When a speaker reproduces a larger acoustic band on a wider dispersion pattern, its sound progressively - and unavoidably - moves away from that peculiar combination of punch, sonic spectrum, directivity that the player has ended up associating to the term "amp in the room" and that they like so much.


    I hope it's clear that I am appreciating the concept and the design behind the Kone. I am not at all bashing either :)

    In order for the Kabinet to sound as it does, it had to be designed the way it has, and this makes the difference with other designs out there.


    :)

  • Its here!


    In the picture, you can see the Kab alongside a Xitone Cab (also known as the Mbritt cab). Dont let the size fool you, the Kemper Kab its VERY loud for its size.


    My first impression is very positive. As people has pointed out, the kab is very lightweight, and seems to be tailored for guitar players looking for portability and ease of moving and BIG sound. I dont think im going to be needing a 2x12 kone cab as I initially thought. As far a construction goes... I guess time will tell. As some of you may know, the Xitone cabs are built like tanks! The Kab is built more like a conventional guitar cab (as opposed to a PA monitor). Now, people have been talking about “amp in the room” sensation... Im not a tone savy person, but when I switched from my Fender Twin Reverb combo amp to the Kemper with the Xitone cab, although I liked what I was hearing, something felt different. I eventually got used to it and never went back and played the Twin Reverb. With the Kemper Kab, you get some of that organic feeling back (amp in the room ....whatever term you want to call it). For that im very grateful. It makes me happy to have best of both worlds, at least to some extend.

    It makes me wonder why the Kemper company is being so humble and quiet about this product considering how good it is. Albeit, my only experience with the Kemper has been with the Xitone, which the general consensus is very positive as well, I think this will become an obvious defacto choice for new Kemper users looking for a “as genuine as a guitar tube amp/cab” solution.


    Great Job Kemper!

  • Well, horses for courses, as they say :)
    You can't use them the same way, of course.


    My point is, you have written quite a few words about the differences of speaker concepts (2-way speaker vs. broadband "GRFR") and reasonable conclusions.

    Our concept is a broadband speaker where the frequency responce is digitally controlled for both the fullrange and Imprint path, while either way follows different philosophies. The fullrange sound is tailored to an extremely linear frequency responce by digital means.

    This is a solution that is unique, especially in the guitar world.

    If you had the chance yet to test a Kone or Kabinet, I will be happy to discuss more deeply.


    However, if all your points are theory based on recent experiences and knowledge, they are presumably not applicable to the Kone or Kabinet.

  • Its here!Now, people have been talking about “amp in the room” sensation... Im not a tone savy person, but when I switched from my Fender Twin Reverb combo amp to the Kemper with the Xitone cab, although I liked what I was hearing, something felt different. I eventually got used to it and never went back and played the Twin Reverb.

    I discovered I did not like the Directivity control at anything other than 10 (full up). Anything less sounds diffused and strange.

    The key to everything is patience.
    You get the chicken by hatching the egg, not by smashing it.
    -- Arnold H. Glasow


    If it doesn't produce results, don't do it.

    -- Me

  • Hi folks!

    Just got done building my 212 to house two Kones that are coming in tomorrow and have been testing it with some V30s. Does anyone have the links to the Kone wiring diagram? Is it a straight swap with regular speakers or is there anything special that needs to be done? Thank you. Here is the Cabinet. Just waiting for the speakers and for the spray paint mold to paint the logo on the grill!! Added some Kemper green on the grill trim to match!! It’s way too loud, but I am Stoked to put the Kones in this thing!


  • ckemper Did I remember correctly that there will be a deal on 4 Kones for a half stack cab?

    Kemper PowerRack | Rivera 4x12 V30 cab | Yamaha DXR10 pair | UA Apollo Twin Duo | Adam A7X | Cubase DAW
    Fender Telecaster 62 re-issue chambered mahogany | Kramer! (1988 or so...) | Gibson Les Paul R7 | Fender Stratocaster HBS-1 Classic Relic Custom Shop

  • My Kabinet arrived yesterday and though I know, that Kemper's inventions and amendments are really worthy and innovative I didn't expect this huge improvement.


    WOW !!!!! Holy shit !!!!! This Thing rocks !!!!!


    I've been playing for forty years and owned a pretty large amount of amps , speakers and cabinets and still own two of my favorite Guitar Amps (Two Rocks), and I think I can judge, how an amp has to sound in the room.


    Since yesterday I now understand the whole discussion about "Amp-in-the-room" vs. "miked-amp-sound".

    Since I bought my first Profiler in 2014 I made a lot of profiles of my TwoRocks and tweaking those for my monitor-Sound (Yamaha DXR10) and FoH (Yamaha DSR18 and DSR12) and I was pretty close to the originals.


    But now with the Kabinet IT IS THE ORIGINAL with all the chime, haptic feeling and dynamic-response of the real thang.

    I never would have expected this. Even the 10 Inch Imprints of the Jensens remind me to my 66-Vibrolux and the Oxford-Imprint combined with the 62 Deluxe profile ARE my 66-Deluxe-Reverb as I remember.


    This Kabinet will be the enemy of all FoH-technicians, because loud-stages will come back !!!!!:thumbup::)

  • I discovered I did not like the Directivity control at anything other than 10 (full up). Anything less sounds diffused and strange.

    wow, that just goes to show how personal our tastes are. I don’t like mine above about 2 and actually like it at 0 some of the time 😳


    it’s fantastic that we now have so mich control and flexibility.

  • if all your points are theory based on recent experiences and knowledge, they are presumably not applicable to the Kone or Kabinet.

    As I said, I trust the Kabinet to work well. Most of my comments were related to demonstrate how it can sound like a guitar cabinet when Imprints are applied, and I mean this as a strength. The rest explained my POV about the currently used terminology in general (of course we may be using terms differently, but this is after all irrelevant). From what you write it seems you think I am criticizing the device instead...


    As for the comparison between the Kone and the other Celestion speaker, I wrote that they are two different beasts, aimed at different tasks they both perform well.


    What parts of what I wrote do not apply, specifically?

  • Quote

    With the premise that the acronym would be Guitar Range - Flat response it does, actually IMO.

    Ermmmm, no. Guitar range is between "this"---------to-----------"this" frequency wise...


    FR (full range) is between "this" ---------------------------------------to----------------------------------------------- "this" frequency wise.



    They are the same in that both make noise, but are miles apart frequency wise and since "Hertz" is what the subject was, they are not the same. ;)

    As always your mileage may vary. ^^

    If you use FRFR the benefit of a merged profile is that the cabinet is totally separated in the profile.


    For my edification only... :D Kemper/Helix user

  • I'm really enjoying my new Kab, and I've lots to explore yet with this new setup. For comparing the Kab versus my old 1x12, can I simply move the speaker cable from one cabinet to the other without damaging the toaster )powered)? (i.e. there is no standby switch used previously with amp heads) Or do I need to power off the toaster before moving the speaker cable? Thx.


    P.S. Yes, I know I also need to turn off/on the Kone software when switching cabinets.