Kone & Kabinet Q&A

  • I'm wondering if the issue with Kone\imprints not working as well with high gain tones as low gain ones is that the speakers are not broken in. Speakers generally don't need to be broken in for good clean tone, but for overdriven/high gain tones there is a big difference. It would be interesting to create imprints of, for example a new Greenback and an old one to see how they compare. I'm not sure if an imprint of a broken in speaker would compare to an actually broken in speaker, but it would be interesting to compare the difference(s).

  • I'm wondering if the issue with Kone\imprints not working as well with high gain tones as low gain ones is that the speakers are not broken in. Speakers generally don't need to be broken in for good clean tone, but for overdriven/high gain tones there is a big difference. It would be interesting to create imprints of, for example a new Greenback and an old one to see how they compare. I'm not sure if an imprint of a broken in speaker would compare to an actually broken in speaker, but it would be interesting to compare the difference(s).

    Interesting hypothesis.

    When I bought the XiTone MBritt I asked Mick if I needed to break in the speaker, and he replied that there was no need. He was right.

  • Hey there :-)


    The Kabinet is really awesome! But what i don´t really get is the following situation: Kemper Kone activated + MonCabOff activated + Cabinet in the stack section deactivated. Than the Kemper switches correctly to linear mode but if i change the speaker imprints the sound changes also. Is there something i don´t understand?? Shouldn´t it stay completly linear while changing the imprints?


    Wish you guys all the best :-)

  • Interesting response.


    I wasn’t precise enough with my initial language. I KNOW that Aux in plays in FR mode. The post alerted to me to this, I then checked the manual. I was looking for more information - out of curiosity - on how this is actually programmed etc. It may be simple for most but I couldn’t understand how one ’signal’ could be FR and another with the imprints etc. I’ll keep my questions to myself.


    You’re easily insulted! If I created a product worth 4 digits and somebody purchased it, loved it, spent countless hours enthusiastically learning and was nothing but respectful and decent on my 22 year old forum - I’d be something other than insulted and certainly wouldn’t encourage others to feel so.


    Everyone has their area of expertise and this also allows the amount of time available to invest in a product or technology. Hopefully, when you step outside of your comfort zone people are more pleasant with you. Set an example of how you would like your community to interact with each other. There must be a code of conduct/house rules from 1998? So RTFM!


    I apologize to have put you in the focus. You will imagine that no user on this forum has more information about the Kone than what was written in the manual (posted on the first page of this thread), and you did not formulate a specific question. So to me your post looked like a dozen other posts on this thread.


    I appreciate that you have worked with the manual and I'm happy to answer your additional question. That's why I'm here.


    The FR technique and the Imprint technique are two separate concepts even technically, as you all experience. But both land on the same Kone, which does not change its physics, whether it i driven fullrange or by Imprint.


    Therefore a fullrange AUX signal and a Profile with Imprint can simply be mixed in the Profiler - like on a mixing desk - and played back by the same Kone together. While creating the suitable sounds for sure requires a reasonable amount of science, mixing them is no science.

    No magic required :)


    CK

  • No worries! If I asked the correct question, I would’ve gotten the desired answer. This isn’t a What’s App chat, so I’ll try to be more accurate in future.


    Plus, I can’t have a falling out with you! Your name is all over my music and software equipment, it would ruin the guitar for me😀

  • Well I sent my Kabinet back. Just wasn’t happy enough for $500 for my applications of med-high-heavy gain setup. As some have stated above I agree it did feel muffled or blanket over it. I wonder what V30 they modeled after...some certainly are more muffed like the Chinese ones. Listen to UK v30 in a Mesa vs. Orange there’s definitely a difference.

  • Thank you man, I will record something tomorrow. the fact is, I am used to rehearse with two Yamaha DXR12, and the sound is nowhere like the one I get with the Kone in my cab. I know it is supposed to be different, but here it is TOTALLY different. SO different that I was wonderingif it could come from my cab structure or something wrong with my powered toaster...


    Welcome in the world of different speakers :)


    The key of your problem is obviously the DXR12, that you are familiar with.

    The Yamaha PA speakers are far from linear. They have exaggerated lows and highs. To compare them with an imprint or even a classic guitar speaker is comparing apples and asparagus.


    The F12 has exaggerated high frequencies as well. If you find those muffled, and you have assured that your Monitor EQ is set to flat, then you might have got too accustomed to the high frequencies of your Yamaha.


    Do you have any other fullrange speakers available for a cross check? A stereo, or studio monitor speakers?

  • skoczy mcuz51


    Can you provide a couple of examples of Kemper Factory Content/Rig Pags/ Rig Exchange, or otherwise free rigs with this issue?


    And - what guitar(s) and pickups are you using? Do you have Clean/Distortion sense locked, or are you using the settings in the Rigs?


    Send a video with the different setting combinations (specifically Kone output page and maybe the CAB and AMP settings and any EQ settings).


    I seem to be able to get any sound sounding good, but sometimes a lot of EQ adjustment is required.

    Sure, here are some from KFP but there are a lot more having this "blanket over the speaker" that I don't have with the DXR12 :

    TAF - MeBo Still Crnch

    AS - Diesel VH Four

    MB - 65 Fan BM Tim


    I am using a 1993 ESP M-II equipped with EMG 89X & EMG 89XR and settings from the rigs. Clean/Distorsion sense are not locked.

    I witnessed that this problem is even more obvious with the FRFR mode. I tried to record it with my phone but of course it does not sound as obvious as when you are in the room...


    https://www.dropbox.com/s/eyuxuqh3hm1mzgi/IMG_0865.MOV?dl=0

  • Well I sent my Kabinet back. Just wasn’t happy enough for $500 for my applications of med-high-heavy gain setup. As some have stated above I agree it did feel muffled or blanket over it. I wonder what V30 they modeled after...some certainly are more muffed like the Chinese ones. Listen to UK v30 in a Mesa vs. Orange there’s definitely a difference.

    That‘s bad. I assume that you did not have a real V30 available for a comparison.


    The speakers that we have modeled are more on the brighter side. The Kone features a slightly wider beam in addition, making the Imprint appear even a bit brighter in off-axis angles. This is why we have introduced the Directivity control for the users, to compensate this effect to your liking.



    Here are some general rule of thumps:


    The Kone/Kabinet is the first solution ever where you can compare the sound of a mic‘ed speaker versus the cab-in-the-room-sound, through the same speaker, by the simple press of a button, without a pause.

    These sounds are very different, in dependence of the gain you play. The more gain, the more difference.


    While classic guitar speakers sound more mid ranged, with a natural high end rolloff, the mic‘ed speaker will emphasize the bass (due to the proximity effect) and the high frequencies (in a favorable or nasty way, depending in the listener genre). In total, the mic’ed cabinet tends to have a scooped sound. This has always been like that.


    Clean players might not hear too much of a difference.

    Mid gain players tend to prefer the Imprints for its cab-in-the-room-sound and hate the high frequency phasyness of mic’ed speakers.

    High gain players (Metal, Djent) tend to prefer the mic’ed speakers for its extended low end and the phasyness that creates a signature sound. This is mostly lost by unifying and leveling down with the cab-in-the-room sound. Same happens when you use the PureCabinet feature. We had similar conversations when we introduced PureCabinet.

  • I have checked the TAF profile.

    Even though it is hard to judge by a phone recording, the sound seems to be the same that I have here on the Kone.

    Everything‘s ok, except that you are used to brighter sound reproduction by your DXF12.


    Have you tried the „Sweetening“ parameter in FR mode?

    Or „Directivity“ in Imprint mode?

  • Thank you for your answer Christoph, and for your amazing gear.

    Yes, I read the part of the manual (IRTFM :) )about the Kone before posting and tried both. It seems you are right, the DXR12 is brighter and that is what I am used to.

    As you mentioned, the phone recording is not really "judicable"...

    A quick question though, what is the thickness of the Kabinet please ? Mine is 18mm thick.

  • I have just tried both the TAF - MeBO and AS - Diesel profiles through my Kabinet and my Adam A7z monitors. Of course they sound different even with the Kabinet in Full Range mode but I have to confess I don't hear anything muffled about the Kabinet. In fact I actually think I prefer it to the Adams which I was definitely not expecting to be the case.

  • I got my Kab 2 days ago, bought a ritter camplifier studio to play with.


    Before the Kab I played on a Line 6 PC, and before the power cab I had a heardrush 108 that i did'nt like at all.


    TBH I didn't love the Kab immediatly:


    - Like mcuz51 I felt like some of my fav profiles seemed to be muffled. I'm used to the PC that is quite bright with the tweeter. But I also felt that it could be my room acoustic because with more volume (I'm locked in my appartment because of coronavirus) I could hear more details from the profiles and it started singing more. I play with a strat and the sound felt clearly fatter than with the PC or my monitors.

    - I think that dynamics vary very much withs speakers and I had to adapt my playing style to this, just find how to sound good with it.

    - I was dumb and forgot to unlock the INPUT section, I locked it because some profiles had compression there and I did'nt want that with my monitors. Thanks to the man here who said that it could be part of the problem.


    I know that my hears need to adapt to new things and I kept trying and now I'm very happy with it, and like it more and more every hour I play on it.


    I just had to try again about 100 profiled amps (~ 300 profiles) to find the best fit for the Kab (to my ears).


    For low gain - strat with SSL-1 , found that some of the TAF profiles work well -+ to my ears+- for a quite loud day-bedroom volume (I also like tonejunkie's). I play with st-plexi-clean+, st-plexi-push, st-morgan-clean+, st-vibroking-clean, st-65amps, I have some packs from them and it's funny to see that these are all from the pack 1! (I made this selection without knowing that). And amps from pack 1 are quite nasally voiced but some of them have something that feels very alive.


    For high gain I play with a LTD with SD JB in the bridge, for Adam Jones stuff I had a Tonehammer profile of a Diezel Hagen that felt to bright with the powercab, I love how it sounds with the Kab now ...


    I play in FRFR mode (I also like the celestion blue but I prefer FRFR in a small room). Sweetening to 0. I don't like the pure cab parameter as I feel like I'm loosing something, with the sweetening I don't have the same feeling but I don't hear what it adds, I play with an EQ.


    Backing tracks also sound very good with the kab, and the thing is quite pretty with the toaster on it.


    Honeslty I think that this whole thing - Kemper + Kab + Remote + pedal rocks. Simple, multi-purpose, reliable, good sounding.


    The KAB also sets a standard for profile makers, maybe that could homogenize the way amps are profiled?

  • sounds indeed more open on the video, but in the room it sounds really muffled compared to the DXR12 or even a Headrush FRFR108

    I find those profiles also muffled. If you change the CAB to Mars 1960AV it sounds totally different and open (hold cabinet button and find a Mars 1960AV from Lars Luettge)


    Also if you try MB - Marlon - A1 with FRFR or GB - Diesel VH Four (same amp different profiler!) they will sound nice.


    All profiles can be tweaked to sounds better for your specific environment & ears but my guess is always start with a profile your ears like and then tweak.


    But yes I find some high gain profiles boxy and muffled -- but not all. I think the trick is getting the right combination of CAB, Definition and EQ. Also I like to choose a nice profile, then find the best imprint for my ears (their impact is always very different per profile) and then tweak Definition and EQ.