Clean sens / Distortion sens - seem to do MORE than manual suggests - in a good way

    Had my Kemper for a few weeks now, just started messing around with the clean/dist sens Input settings. From what I'd read in the manual, it seemed like all these did was balance clean profiles with distorted ones in terms of perceived volume. However, I became more interested in them after watching Tone Junkie's tutorial video on this - specifically the idea that any profile is combination of clean and distorted sounds, as determined/analysed by the profiling procedure.


    What I'm hearing when turning those dials is - contrary to what I'd understood from the manual - clean sense DOES also affect distorted profiles, and dist sens DOES also affect clean ones.


    After extensive A/B-ing, I've ended up with -2.1 clean sens, +0.3 distorted sens - not to suggest these exact setting will work for other people's guitars/setups, but have tested these on numerous profiles, and seems to work across the board. (my pickups are DiMarzio Paf Joe/Mo Joe btw)


    What I find is, turning down the clean sens subtly improves dist profiles - if I increase it back towards 0, the sound gets more "brittle" - sort of like having a faint DI signal in the mix. Similarly, having distorted sens up just 0.3 on clean profiles adds a subtle bit of tasteful "grit" into the sound - in both cases, gets (to my ears) closer to the sound of a real amp.


    Incidentally, I originally set the clean sens using clean profile, and dist sens using distorted ones (as suggested in the manual) - but then when I tried tweaked clean sens with dist profiles and dist sens with clean, I was also ending up with these values, and noticing the above observations.


    No specific question here really, but curious to hear other people's thoughts on these settings, and any further ideas on why it seems to makes such a difference beyond what the manual suggests.

    i think CK recently said somewhere that the clean sens is a limiter that increases the level of analog signal going into the AD convertors to maximise available headroom. A matching reduction is then applied in the digital domain to maintain the original signal level. The balancing clean and distortion levels was a side effect of the design.

    Yes and no, kinda lol


    I think it depends on the sonic architecture captured in any given profile and the way it relates to the data as it's interpreted by the profiler.


    Some distorted profiles I've had were affected in a different way with clean sense than others.


    I've also had opposite behavior in turning down the dist sense making the gain structure "louder" if that makes sense but on other profiles this would only happen if i turned up.

    Quote from Wheresthedug

    i think CK recently said somewhere that the clean sens is a limiter that increases the level of analog signal going into the AD convertors to maximise available headroom. A matching reduction is then applied in the digital domain to maintain the original signal level. The balancing clean and distortion levels was a side effect of the design.

    I saw that he said this too recently, and it got me thinking about it in a different way on how it could benefit changing the sound, feel, structure etc. With past profiles exhibited some rather strange behavior and those being referenced as an error in the data code or something, mixed with changing cabs from DI profiles to merged, to studio then back, I've come to realise that using your ears and tuning in to the ways it feels is always the best move.


    What that means is, if you have a profile that you feel has a less brittle sound when turning the clean sense on a dirty profile then by all means do that regardless of what the manual says or how general consensus on what any given parameter might do or doesnt do as it relates to the situation.


    The manual is a guide and not the actual path itself. (a guide as is, a coworker of truth.) ^;^


    Or something like that :D

    One time I got some clean profiles that got louder in volume instead of compressing into distortion when turning the gain up but also causing the output to peak really hard really fast and I could start to hear my speakers burning haha. These profiles were deemed, an error in the code from profiling or something. Still some of my favorite clean profiles to use with a cab though, cheers!

    Just coming back to this as I found a bunch of old threads with people arguing with "ckemper" (who I presume is the creator of this great device!) about whether or not clean sens affects sound of distorted profiles. He seems to be insistent that it DOESN'T - however I have to agree with those who disagree - it definitely does affect the sound, albeit subtly. Good news is the same settings I chose above seem to work for all profiles, at least while using my main guitar with humbuckers. Have tried tweaking the settings on numerous profiles, but keep coming back to the exact same ones. Done blind tests, lots of A/B-ing, definitely makes a difference!


    However I had to alter the input settings for single coils - although it's not strictly a single coil, it's a setting on my Patrick Eggle which halves the humbuckers to give "single coil sounds", so not sure if it's exactly the same sound as a dedicated single coil. But anyway, it sounded weak and lame with profiles I'd already ascertained to be great with the humbuckers, so this time raised the clean sense a bit, and dist sense too. Sounds great now - thinner and brighter of course like singles coils are meant to be, but not weak and lame anymore ;) Just need to remember to change input settings when switching between humbucker and "single coil" settings on my guitar...

    Also try a pure boost for single coils.


    I have various pedals and have used kemper boosters to do this and it is a good quick solution for me.


    I have Devin Townsend fishman Fluance pickups and the single coil split is a little weak but a tiny couple of db boost fixes it right up!

    Also worked with some passive emg coil splits too

    Yes, am doing this too! The booster's actually one of my favourite "pedals" on the Kemper - not so much for big solo boosts, but just a tiny bit seems to fine tune the amps gain & response - I'm guessing getting closer to what the original profiler was hearing with their setup.

    Quote from Wheresthedug

    I’m just curious but why would the addition of a boost get closer to what the original profiler was hearing with their setup?

    It's just a theory - and maybe not, maybe they're hearing the same thing I hear without a booster, but I prefer a little "hotter" sound. But then again, it's not just that, I feel like often a tiny bit of boost (e.g 0.6 db) makes the amp feel more realistic. In which case, maybe the profiler used slightly hotter pickups, and the booster is simulating that. I find this especially necessary using the "single coil" setting on my humbuckers - I don't know exactly how close this gets to a genuine single coil sound - I'd say it's a bit weaker - hence a bit of boost (and increasing clean & dist sens) gets me closer to how the profiler's genuine single coil pickup sounded. Who knows... But nonetheless, adjusting clean & dist sense, and subtle use of boosters, is getting me some very authentic amp tones, so that's all good!

    I have a new theory that when profiling and that's giving more information to a signal than exactly needed.


    Simple example is if the profile comes out too dark, turn the highs up more on the amp than you actually use so the profiler gets as much of that information as possible to then "Land" on the target original sound. Or something like that ?^^