3 Amps..oh lord!

  • ...Ever wonderd what say, an Orange rockverb, mixed with a voxac30 with a bit of Fender twin would sound like ?

    well now you can..

    My new adventures start right here! and also my new project...
    Im blending amps in studio, in a complex way I might add!. but it works, (sometimes)

    Im trying to capture the heart of recording systems, and that means 1 amp is sometimes never enough. so Ive 3 on this one blended together. - of course this now leads a door wide open for endless possibilities, that I can see myself diving towards..natrually : )

    Although this is a LOT more work and head scrathing, as some amps blend well, some dont. so a lot of to and fro. but these 3 made my blues dream rig happen today. (finally after 3 days trying to get it to work) - Althogh refining is a bit harder here, as the KPA cant quite pickup the transients correctly with that much data. - but it does get close. - and is indeed IMO a bigger sound than a single rig. - I was told it was impossible.. well I prooved tech support wrong :)

    You really need to play it to understand the bigness really.. the clip doesnt do it justice, mainly becasue of the fool who demod it!. (serios one day I'll get some proper demos up and correct nice playing I promise)

    Here is a sample.. err crap playing.. litterally one take on my strat. direct from Kemper to PT to you.

    And for those that want to test it out.. here is the patch I used. Bearing in mind no data is applied to it, just profoiled over one of my patches. also its 100% raw)

    Have Funzies!

  • that´s interesting!

    This way I could omit those damn phase issues when reamping several times from one source DI-track.
    What I usually do for my heavy rhythm tracks is blending two Diezel Herberts with different cabs together, one with Celestion G12K100 speakers, which are brutally precise and in your face, miked with a Heil PR40 mic, the other one with Vitnage30 speakers for a smoother and more musical addition, miced with a trusty SM57

    I should make one profile with this setup!

    Sometimes I like to add a room mic. what if I bring this into the game, too? Would it be possible?

  • Hard to say if it is or not, all I can say is try things. - you will need a "Y" box of some sort to get the amps back to the Kemper. or a Submix for the Mics + Amp group on your desk.
    it does do room mics, but not as you would expect. (hard to explain) - again better if you just dig in. : )

  • Amazing profile!! Thanks Andy! It sounds chimey but full with a lovely deep and smooth low end. With HB sounds glorious as well!!

    :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: Top work!

    "Music is enough for a lifetime, but a lifetime is not enough for music" Serghei Rachmaninoff

  • Nice one. I also experimented with biamping a while ago. How do you get rig of the phasing? This was a severe problem when i tried. I ended up putting a 15 msec delay on the second signal. I also thought about putting the different signals onto a DAW first and adjuting the phase there and profile via the DAW.

  • Whitenoise.
    i alling my mics first as if im doing a normal record session. - I blow out white nose in amp room, untill its all perfect.
    I then run the mics via a patchbay into preamps, > then into a subgroup.
    Then the Amps, I run those into a 4 way splitter box, that goes into the desk, out of the subgroup and into the KPA
    Your getting latency because of your subgroups possibly, therfore casuing delay throwing the phase out?
    this depends on the desk. and how its setup. - but I only get phase issues if my mics are not set correctly. (plus I also have a phase invert on the channel strips for the rear mics)
    err there is a bit more to it that that.. but in a nutshell thats it.. im not in studio currently so cant tell you exctally.

    But the fist few days was non-eventfull just couldnt get it to work.. refining basiclly killed it.. several re-wires later and it works. : )

    Dont forget that duel amps and its cabs the speakers are differnt. - inset depth and also soem speakers generally have there own delay. some Greens have about 50ms delay.. so you will need matching cabs or workable speakers) for it to work.. - this is why i said in my first post.. some work.. some dont.. but im lucky enough to have the luxory of changing..

    If your getting a delay on one side.- you will have to compensate. - a great way of doing this.. is run a dirt box or something, full gain. (or several) so you get loads of noise. - then mic up the noise with headphones on : )

    Do try again.. im sure you will get it!

  • Friggin great profile :thumbsup:

    I tried fooling around with different settings to see if I could improve it even more, then A/B'd what I came up with against your original - ended up deleting mine. Simply superb effort. Thanks!

    Go for it now. The future is promised to no one. - Wayne Dyer

  • Andy - Although I can't seem to load your sample page to listen (probably too much activity), I am very impressed with your creativity and problem-solving abilities.... thanks so much for sharing it on the board! :thumbup:

  • The phasing that occured in my test was just a result of one amp producing a slightly higher delay by itself. It was just a matter of the internal circuitry. I ran both poweramp on 2 sides of a stereo cab and it sounded already awful in the room because of this. Maybe i will do a second test by using a separate cab for a second amp and phase align just by mic distance. On the other side most of my amps have a similar sound, so i am not really sure it it´s worth the effort. We will see.

    But indeed it´s a great trick to put some white noise into the splitter and do a phase flip on the one signal. If both signals cancel out each the most you should be in phase when you flip the phase again.

  • Finally got to hear the sample - Wow, most excellent! 8o One thought on phasing: Sometimes a controlled amount can be a good thing as long as it doesn't start cancelling a lot of low end - it can be used to create a 'poor man's filter matrix' effect, and I'm sure we've heard this on countless recordings, whether intentional or not...

  • Yeah ive heard tons of phase probs (back in the day) a lot of 80's rock!. a lot of the prolems was because of the big sound..and back then, you HAD to crank your 3 marshal heads all running 2x12 to number 11!. - then they would mic up.. and a lot of the time the air alone would move the lil mic even a MM or so, throwing out the phase in certain places :)

    Phase is a beast..worse when using offaxis mics! so I dont do that when micing multicabs.. too much headache!

    Not allowed to do this these days.. well meh!.. wont need too.. we have KPA! :)

  • Hi matey

    blimey you know your stuff and then some, hugely impressive, and amazing sound, as I said to you the other day you're blowing the capability of this unit wide open. I've loved it for the last few months, the best unit I've ever owned/played, but you are adding a whole new dimension, turning it from an amp profiler into a whole new instrument.

    CK - grab this guy, he can make you even more famous in our world

    Andy, keep on playing, you're a star and I'm delighted to have met you