Midi CC1 Wah automation is crashing my Kemper. Some insight would be appreciated.

  • I've been automating our show for the last month. This includes lighting cues as well as patch changes. I'm using Reaper as my DAW to run all the tracks as well as midi with a nice script written by cfilion that sets up an adjustable playlist within Reaper that you can control via a web browser (we use an iPad). This setup has been great but I still have been struggling with a few issues.

    I'm currently struggling with getting CC1 automated so that I can have the Wah going on a few solos. I can do this manually but it will make my life a lot easier if I can have it automated on the click track. The problem I'm facing is that when I'm sending midi values through to the Kemper that ranges from 0 to 127 to simulate an expression pedal going up and down it freezes the Kemper after 2 seconds. I don't know if it's too much information for the Kemper to process, but it is effectively the same as using a midi expression pedal which I have done a lot. Reaper does generate a lot of values when automating a sign wave pattern so I'm wondering if the amount of values being sent would cause confusion on the Kempers side though. I could delete some of these values in the DAW. I'm sending midi through a Yamaha MD-BT01 and have monitored the output on a second computer and it's not transmitting any midi garbage.

    If anybody has any insight on this matter it would be appreciated! I've logged a ticket as well. Thanks for reading!

  • Hoe gaan dit, broer?


    I'd check that Reaper isn't adding anything to the raw CC values when it's transmitting. I'm thinking, either loop (and record) that output back to a track in the DAW for inspection or use a MIDI utility (lots of free ones available for Mac and PC) to monitor that output and see what shows up.


    I'd check this first 'cause IMHO it's doubtful the Kemper would find this CC stream too much to cope with.


    EDIT:
    Also, make sure the data hasn't been quantised; this would result in multiple values' being expressed at identical points in time, which could pose problems for many outboard units IMHO.

  • Haha. Lekker en jy!?


    Thanks for the reply Monkey_Man.


    I've specifically been looking for odd values being sent but have not found any yet. I've been monitoring the midi output in Reaper, Midberry and another midi program that I can't remember the name of. They all show the same values. I have checked that quantising is off on the midi, but Reaper has a snap to grid feature and maybe that is messing something up. When I visually inspect the pattern that was generated by Reaper it looks like a normal sine wave with a lot of data points forming the curves. It is possible that some of those values snapped to the grid and is perhaps being sent through at the same time. I'll go and inspect that when I get back in my studio tonight. Thanks for the suggestion!

  • Ja, alles is ook lekker hier broer.


    Hey, no worries man. I don't know if Reaper does this, but I know that in DP you can have non-destructive MIDI plugins instantiated and they'll affect velocity values, timing and whatnot depending on which you've selected. Logic achieves a similar thing via the track inspector, I think.


    IOW, I'd make sure that there's no quantisation going on non-destructively / "invisibly" during output. Just a thought.

  • Ja, alles is ook lekker hier broer.


    Hey, no worries man. I don't know if Reaper does this, but I know that in DP you can have non-destructive MIDI plugins instantiated and they'll affect velocity values, timing and whatnot depending on which you've selected. Logic achieves a similar thing via the track inspector, I think.


    IOW, I'd make sure that there's no quantisation going on non-destructively / "invisibly" during output. Just a thought.

    Ek is bly dat dit goed gaan!


    So if I look at the data points that was created within Reaper there are no points overlapping.

    [Blocked Image: https://imgur.com/7Tu41nn]


    BUT, I recorded those messages back into a midi track within Reaper (I couldn't figure out how to export the ReaControlMIDI messages within Reaper any other way) and analyse the recorded track I can indeed see multiple midi events happening at the same time.

    [Blocked Image: https://imgur.com/4JI4who]

    Thanks for the assist Monkey_Man. I believe that explains the Kemper crashing and annoyingly that I have to find a new way of automating those CC1 messages! I've attached a sample midi file if anybody wanted to take a look. Live Kemper.zip


    Have a great day!

  • Try this maybe:


    [Blocked Image: https://forums.cockos.com/image.php?u=9328&dateline=1512811391]  
    Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 11,181
    [Blocked Image: https://forums.cockos.com/images/icons/icon1.gif] There's an option called "reduce envelope data when recording or drawing automation", but it's well hidden. Rightclick the "envelope moves with media items" toolbar button to get it.

    You can toggle that option with the action "options: reduce envelope data when recording automation"
  • I can indeed see multiple midi events happening at the same time.

    IMHO that 'splains it, mate.


    You'd expect the Kemper to be able to handle intensive streams 'cause let's face it, wah-pedal action can be pretty-frantic, but multiple values at the same time, even accounting for the serial nature of the MIDI stream, which would technically spread them out at the minimum-possible interval, is extreme and beyond what a guitarist might generate using a pedal... IMHO.


    Make sure there's no automatic input-quantising going on when recording the moves to Reaper; if it has this feature and it's active, that would explain the vertically-stacked values.