Great News...Enhanced KPA MIDI interface available NOW! Please read!

    Ok...here's something new and potentially very exciting:


    Apparently, the KPA has undiscovered potential. Kemper's design has provisions in place for accessing parameters via MIDI....right now in fw 1.08. This will "open up" the possibilities for iPad and computer apps, better foot controllers....we just need the documentation.


    "Timo", a Kemper employee on this forum, indicated ALL parameters in the KPA are MIDI accessible via NRPN which is a vender-defined method of messaging data through midi that is very flexible. Unfortunately, few MIDI hardware controllers can send NRPN but software can....but keep reading.


    From Timo:
    -------------------
    All parameters are 14bit NRPNs.


    Delay Mix: #9475
    Reverb Mix: #9603
    Modulation Rate (Slots 1-4, X, MOD): #6420, #6548, #6676, #6804, #7188, #7444

    I will try to create a complete document.     If you need something urgent, let me know or better, address Kemper Support.


    Timo
    --------------------


    Notice he has offered to make a "complete document". This is the ticket to integrating the KPA into all manner of hardware and software.....even possibly allowing users to create some cool utilities. Awesome!


    The key to "Jailbreaking" the KPA is here...so chime in and lets support Timo in getting this document released! We are NOT wanting to HACK the KPA, just utilize it to its fullest ability.


    As far as a hardware (foot controller) here's something I found.... MIDI Solutions makes an event translator box that can map regular CC events to NRPN. This device is the size of a pack of cigarettes and uses a software package to map up to 32 events...so that's 32 parameters of your choice accesible in real-time from your favorite midi floor controller "translated" to the KPA by this device. It is powered by MIDI so *if* the KPA supplies MIDI power, you can velcro this inside the rear cavity and proceed to fully integrate the KPA into your live rig. No, I am not affiliated, no interest, don't own one....just found them mentioned on another forum. Other solutions are out there.


    http://www.midisolutions.com/prodepp.htm


    The point of all this is having an open interface where EVERYONE benefits as the market and users begins supporting the KPA.


    Anybody else excited by this development? Reply and lets let Timo know!


    bd

    Yes, I'm also excited, as I was the one with the 'jailbreak' analogy that Timo responded to.
    And I'm all for investigating this further, so thanks For the link with the event processor, Musicman.


    What I simply don't get OTOH is the Kemper paradigm to keep it simple and basic and not offering a simple Midi CC feature set at the same time where any Midi Controller in the world could be used ( in fact CK seemed in Fond of that possibility).

    Quote from DocLine6forum

    What I simply don't get OTOH is the Kemper paradigm to keep it simple and basic and not offering a simple Midi CC feature set at the same time where any Midi Controller in the world could be used ( in fact CK seemed in Fond of that possibility).

    I agree 100%. A MIDI CC implementation for certain features is the best way to go for users. That MIDI event mapper device mentioned above is EXACTLY what needs to happen in the KPA's firmware....but in the mean time, without word from Kemper on future changes to the MIDI strategy, the full MIDI NRPN interface that we now know exist is the way forward.


    My guess is that the KPA has more than 128 parameters internally which is the max for CC# control so a CC map would be a subset of all parameters just as you suggest. The cool thing about NRPN is that it supports 16383 parameters with 0-16383 resolution each. NRPN allows everything to be accessible so its a better interface for programmers. I hope Timo can get us a detailed map to see what is possible.


    I know this is a lot of tech for the average guitarist to grasp but we will all benefit greatly if NRPN can be documented and utilized by programmers. I suspect there are many gifted software engineers on this forum ready to jump on this.


    bd

    The first question before any development has to be whether the USB can be used to trigger these with the KPA treated as a generic MIDI device, or if you must use the MIDI connectors themselves.

    Quote from musicman65

    The key to all these questions is a document that shows the NRPN mapping. We need Timo to understand we are interested in having this so he will work on getting it.


    bd

    I am just a noob at midi, but if we get the NRPN info from Timo, would I be able to control all available effect parameters, with a KM Soft Step foot controller, and the
    MIDI Solutions Event Processor Plus?
    The Soft Step looks like a great controller, seeing as it is software programmable, plus you can use any of the foot pads as pedals, and it's small, and light.
    But, it won't be worth it, if I don't have midi access to all parameters.


    NRPN is just a protocol that uses normal MIDI CCs. The controllers 98,99,100,101 plus 6 and 38 are used for it. If your board can send more than 4 controllers sametime, you can control the parameters.
    Timo

    Imall41,


    yes, thats exactly right! Any MIDI controller that can send PC and CC commands will work with the Event Processor Plus device to control the KPA. The only limitation will be in the Midi Solutions Event Processor Plus which can only map 36 events so that's 36 parameters that can be mapped to a foot controller. The normal MIDI Program Change (PC) data sent to the KPA to change rigs doesn't require event mapping so the 36 events would be CC#'s from the Soft Step mapped to 36 stomp, amp, effects, and other parameters. So all we need is the NRPN mapping and we're set.


    I'm glad to see some other users who see the possibilities!




    Timo, how's the NRPN document coming along? And thanks for clarifying that NRPN is just 4 to 6 CC commands in series. Most of the MIDI floorboards I have researched are not flexible enough to send that many CC's or can't embed the data in the correct CC sequence. If you know of a unit that can do this, I would greatly appreciate any suggestions.


    Thanks,


    bd

    Quote from timo

    NRPN is just a protocol that uses normal MIDI CCs. The controllers 98,99,100,101 plus 6 and 38 are used for it. If your board can send more than 4 controllers sametime, you can control the parameters.
    Timo


    Quote from musicman65

    Timo, how's the NRPN document coming along? And thanks for clarifying that NRPN is just 4 to 6 CC commands in series. Most of the MIDI floorboards I have researched are not flexible enough to send that many CC's or can't embed the data in the correct CC sequence. If you know of a unit that can do this, I would greatly appreciate any suggestions.


    Thanks,


    bd


    Quoted from CK, in this thread.




    Wednesday, May 2nd 2012, 7:18pm



    "You might have overlooked that we have a midi implemenation for pedals already.


    And you are right, we invite everybody to use the pedal that fits the best, especially if other equipment is to be controlled aside from the KPA. Many users do that already.

    I don't see remote pedals as our core business, this is why we want to keep it small, simple proprietary, thus affordable. Saying that, we have no initial plans to support programming of generic midi messages for other devices, as that is the focus of the great generic pedals.


    It would be great if some other companies that focus on remote pedals would make a pedal fit for digital amps with bidirectional communication, to show proprietary display contents such as tuner or rig name.
    I guess some amp companies would collaborate.
    If that was the case I would probably step back from making our own pedal, cause there is more to do.


    But I have got no call from another company.
    I wonder why nobody has started a business for a next generation remote pedals yet. It's not rocket sience.


    CK"


    So, if CK is in favor of us searching out other foot controllers, in order to free him up to concentrate on the KPA itself, then we need the full documentation of NRPN #'s and their corresponding parameters so we can make full use of our foot controller of choice, Yes?
    Plus, maybe I misunderstood some other posts by CK, but I am not sure that the Kemper Floorboard will give us programmable control of all parameters, so the only way to achieve this may be what we are discussing here.


    I don't know. I am feeling my way on this.


    I understand, if there are additional effects coming up, and they don't want to release this document, until all the assignments are finalized.
    I also understand, if they don't want to answer my questions yet, so as to not give anything away, that may be coming.


    I am in no desperate hurry for a foot controller, so if the Kemper Floorboard will allow me to program, foot controlled, effect parameter changes, I may just wait, but if not, then I would like to get a foot controller + the Event Processor.



    So, maybe someone could just answer that last question. Will the proposed Kemper Floorboard be able to do what we are discussing here?


    Please forgive my non-technical language, and thank you, in advance to anyone who gets what I am saying here.

    Edited 4 times, last by imall41 ().

    imall41,


    well put! Another option I found today and was also posted on the forum by another forum member is the Gordius Little Giant family of MIDI foot controllers. They can send any length and construct MIDI string so NRPN is no problem.


    I am glad to hear CK is willing to help others interface MIDI pedals and hope we get a document soon! Even if its a working document

    Quote from musicman65

    imall41,


    well put! Another option I found today and was also posted on the forum by another forum member is the Gordius Little Giant family of MIDI foot controllers. They can send any length and costruct of MIDI string so NRPN is no problem.


    I am glad to hear CK is willing to help others interface MIDI pedals and hope we get a document soon! Even if its a working document

    Thanks, again bd,


    I have been aware of the Gordius line for some time, and the apparent fact that it will send a midi string is great news, but the Soft Step is still more appealing to me, mostly because I would not need any additional foot pedals, plus size, and weight, as previously mentioned.
    Even with having to purchase the Event Processor, and the Midi Expander, for the Soft Step, the cost is approx $300 less than the Gordius.


    Well, It's a work in progress, and I always learn a lot along the way(-:
    No such thing as problems, only solutions :thumbup: .

    ==


    Here's a good MIDI footcontroller comparison table


    http://g-force.info/midiboard_comparison.htm



    In the old days (1995) the Digitech PMC-10 MIDI footcontroller was king - as each of its 10 pedals could be programmed to send multiple user created MIDI strings of any type to 16 different MIDI channels.
    http://www.loopers-delight.com/tools/PMC10/PMC10.html
    There is an Editor for it too
    [Blocked Image: http://www.blazerweb.com/sale/DigiTech_Midi_Foot_Controller_manuals.jpg]


    http://www.creepingfog.com/sean/pmc/
    http://www.creepingfog.com/sea…nd.htm#RaymondVersionInfo



    Today, the FCB-1010 with third party "UNO" software is a very attractive alternative


    http://www.mtnsys.com/faq-fcb/UnO%20Firmware.htm
    A couple Win PC Editors support the UNO equipped FCB-1010:
    http://www.mtnsys.com/faq-fcb/PCEditorBeta.htm
    http://www.ripwerx.com/GettingStarted.html


    The same dude who the developed the free UNO firmware has developed his own line of MIDI foot controllers the Gorduis Little Giant: (but IMHO they are costly here in the USA)
    http://www.gordius.be/



    And the FCB-1010 lacks the expansion abilities to support more than the two built in Expression pedals.



    The Yamaha MFC-10 is attractive:


    http://www.yamaha-europe.com/y…o_series/MFC10/index.html


    Supports one internal and Four external assignable SW/Exp Pedals.


    And is a favorite with Ableton Live users.


    and the Nobels MF2 is interesting.
    http://godlyke.com/shopping/pg…ine_Store&page_num=1&=SID


    There was the Rolls MidiWizzard - but it was poorly built and tended to self destruct.



    The newer products are here:


    http://www.liquid-foot.com/






    It seems many Keyboard controllers can be used for NRPN message transmission. Novation X-Station and Edirol PCR types come to mind.

    Quote from imall41


    Thanks, again bd,


    I have been aware of the Gordius line for some time, and the apparent fact that it will send a midi string is great news, but the Soft Step is still more appealing to me, mostly because I would not need any additional foot pedals, plus size, and weight, as previously mentioned.
    Even with having to purchase the Event Processor, and the Midi Expander, for the Soft Step, the cost is approx $300 less than the Gordius.


    Well, It's a work in progress, and I always learn a lot along the way(-:
    No such thing as problems, only solutions :thumbup: .

    imall,


    You may be onto something...taking a closer look at the KMI SoftStep, they advertise being able to send "Up to 6 Note, CC, Pitch Bend, Program, MMC, or OSC messages per key"... There may be no need for the event processor since NRPN is simply a series of 4 to 6 CC# messages.


    Also, the KMI MIDI Expander looks like it may fit in the rear of the KPA. I also wonder if it will power from the KPA usb port.


    bd



    Whats about the new Rocktron Midi Raider?


    36 MIDI commands per preset can be transmitted amongst the 16 MIDI
    channels including "toggling" control change commands.