Kabinet Kone - 2x12 loud enough for band?

  • Just my opinion .... but any 1x12 is "loud enough" for any band .... for several reasons:


    1. The cab should be mic'ed through the PA so that most of what the audience hears comes from the mains, not the guitar speaker.
    2. The volume on the guitar cab should only be up enough to get good action on the strings and let the guitarist hear themselves play. In fact, the cab should be put on a stand and tilted up toward the guitarist's head to that effect.
    3. If at all possible, the cab should be shielded away from the audience to keep it from beaming from the back (you really don't want any of the cab sound getting out in front any more than you have to IMHO.

    Now .... having said that, I know that there are LOTS of people out there gigging without having their guitar go through the PA in small to medium clubs. I just think that most of us graduate from that form of garage band style playing and up to making the band sound good at some point in our lives.


    No offence to those who play with just a cab. There really isn't anything like playing with a dimed amp for a guitar player. I am certain all of us here have experienced it. I just don't think that is a good way to make the band sound great.

  • I am referring to jamming with my band (not live) but in a basement just using the cab with Power Amp (Kemper) . I understand that live, the mixing desk handles the main volume.


    Just want to make sure that for rehearsing, it will be able to handle it. It does say 200 watts per Kabinet so I am assuming this thing can be VERY loud.. haha

  • Just my opinion .... but any 1x12 is "loud enough" for any band .... for several reasons:


    1. The cab should be mic'ed through the PA so that most of what the audience hears comes from the mains, not the guitar speaker.
    2. The volume on the guitar cab should only be up enough to get good action on the strings and let the guitarist hear themselves play. In fact, the cab should be put on a stand and tilted up toward the guitarist's head to that effect.
    3. If at all possible, the cab should be shielded away from the audience to keep it from beaming from the back (you really don't want any of the cab sound getting out in front any more than you have to IMHO.

    Now .... having said that, I know that there are LOTS of people out there gigging without having their guitar go through the PA in small to medium clubs. I just think that most of us graduate from that form of garage band style playing and up to making the band sound good at some point in our lives.


    No offence to those who play with just a cab. There really isn't anything like playing with a dimed amp for a guitar player. I am certain all of us here have experienced it. I just don't think that is a good way to make the band sound great.

    two words spring to my mind “Alan Murphy” 🤣


    he never seemed to have any problem being loud enough on stages like Wembley Arena with a 12w Fender Champ. Apparently people used to laugh when he turned up at gigs with the Champ until he turned on and they heard to tone he got.

  • two words spring to my mind “Alan Murphy” 🤣


    he never seemed to have any problem being loud enough on stages like Wembley Arena with a 12w Fender Champ. Apparently people used to laugh when he turned up at gigs with the Champ until he turned on and they heard to tone he got.

    Indeed! I know a few guys that gig with fantabulously huge rigs, but mic a single speaker ;) I have also seen the stage setup of some popular bands where there are stacks and stacks of 412 cabs .... none of which are plugged in.


    It is the one thing I miss about my VHT stack .... it looked really impressive on stage. Of course around 3:30am when I was shlepping it down the stairs with my whipped butt draggin on the floor ..... it was no longer feeling "impressive" :)

  • Two 1x12 KEMPER KONE'S could easily handle the volume levels you would need. How the human ear perceives different amp volumes is all to do with sound pressure levels, which uses a logarithmic scale (dB). More wattage does produce higher volumes, but the difference in volume between a 25 watt amp, and a 100 watt amp is not as much as you would expect. The 100 watt amp will be about 6 dB louder than the 25 watt amp. There's a difference, but a 25 watt amp is not four times louder than a 100 watt amp; it doesn't work like that. Even a low watt amp, say, something like a classic 18 watt valve amp, can be loud enough.


    I used to use a Marshall 100 watt, 2x12 JCM800 valve amp back in the day, and I never used it on full volume because it was just too loud. I always regretted not buying the 50 watt, 1x12 Marshall, which I had tried out first. It sounded a lot better at the volumes I was using, because it would break up earlier. It was ideal for pub and club work, and a lot easier on my back! Before that, I had an unreliable early 1960s, VOX AC30, which had more headroom than the Marshall, so it was better for clean sounds. Again, it was more than loud enough, and I never used it on full volume. And, yes, it was also very heavy!


    You don't need a 4x12 stack these days, because PAs are so good. If you feel like you do need the extra volume, then just mic the amp though the PA. I've just put two KEMPER KONE'S into my two Line6 1x12 DT25 cabs, they were a perfect fit, and they sound fantastic. They have loads of bass, a great stereo spread, and they are very loud. A KEMPER KONE can handle 200 Watts, so I could pump out 400 watts if I needed to, but I will never need that sort of volume, ever!

  • Very nice! I bought 2 1x12 Kabinets and honestly just the 1 is loud enough! I'll keep one in my office and the other I can use with the band. The other question is when I decide to play live with the Kemper, I will only bring and plug my Power Rack Kemper (directly into the mixing desk).


    I hope that whatever sound and settings I get through the Kemper Kabinet is (close) once I have it plugged direct to venue monitors.

  • I can't gig any more, but I would hate to rely on a venue's PA to get my guitar sound. Even if you had played in a venue before, and you were happy with the sound you got last time, what happens if you play there again, and they've changed the PA, and it's rubbish. You're stuffed! And, that's the main problem when playing through a PA, you don't know what you're going to get - there are PAs, and there are PAs! In other words, some are good, some are indifferent, and some just down right bad, and I've heard some awful PAs in my time. It's like hearing someone or something playing inside a cardboard box! Then, you've might have the other problem of someone you don't know working the PA, and tweaking your sound mid-set! =O Most guitarist are control freaks when it comes to 'their' sound, but, who can blame them. It's fine if it's a PA you are happy with, like your bands PA. But, you could have the scenario where you turn up for a gig, and find out the PA's been changed for some reason, and no one bother to tell you!


    The question I would like answering is, do the KEMPER Kone speaker imprints work through a PA? I would presume they would work, but I'm not sure? The KEMPER Kone only has a frequency range of 50 - 10,000 Hz, a PA has a far wider frequency range, but the KEMPER Kone been modelled to mimic classic guitar speakers, and to give that good old, "amp in the room" feeling. I don't have access to a PA, so it would be interesting to compare the two.


    Anyway, my cabs have never sounded so good. I'm really please with the KEMPER Kone, and the way you have the ability to dial in all those classic speaker sounds.


    All I've got to do now is change the Line 6 Logo to say, KEMPER Kone!

  • You do have a point.... which is why I always bring my own PA to any venue that I am not absolutely sure has a good setup (even if they have their own). BTW, this does irritate some bar owners since they generally feel like they have a "great" system that they have personally setup. No one likes to hear that they suck with their PA abilities .... especially if they have dumped a bunch of money into it.


    If you show up to a venue where the PA is crap, you are doomed to sound horrible anyway. Only guitar players actually listen to how the tone of a guitar player sounds. The reset of the audience is listening to the vocals and feeling the kick and bass. If the kick, bass and vocals sound bad, a great guitar tone pealing through the crowd isn't going to save the night IMO.


    It is my understanding from others that have posted, that the speaker emulations in the KPA sound awful through PA full range speakers. You really need the Kone or the Kabinet for this to sound good.

  • It is my understanding from others that have posted, that the speaker emulations in the KPA sound awful through PA full range speakers. You really need the Kone or the Kabinet for this to sound good.

    i tried the imprints through my A7x monitors to get an idea of how they would sound through a PA. In my opinion they sounded OK but definitely very different from the Kabinet with the Kone speaker.

  • Yep, I've done a bit of digging, and a few people have said the same thing, which is, the speaker imprints don't sound that great through a PA.


    They didn't sound great through my old Celestion G12H-90 speakers, either. They're a great speaker, and they worked fine with my KPA rack going through a Palmer Macht 402 power amp, when the cab was turned off. But, they have a narrower frequency range, and simply can't match the range of the KEMPER Kone. The KEMPER Kone just sounds miles better.


    Kemper also state: "The KEMPER Kone is a 12“ full range speaker which is exclusively designed by Celestion for KEMPER. It is controlled and driven by the KEMPER PROFILER’s DSP to an ultra-linear (full range) frequency response, using a dedicated DSP algorithm. In contrast to the conventional idea of a full range system, the radiation pattern of the KEMPER Kone™ has been narrowed towards the physics of a classic guitar speaker chassis, so that even the full range sound carries a distinct guitar speaker character, unlike regular PA speakers or monitor speakers."


    So, there you have it, Christoph has spoken!

  • Here is the question... The purpose of having the Kemper (From what I have read) and seen videos on are not only from being able to choose between all the different rigs, but from bands I've seen like (A Day To Remember) or (August Burns Red) or (Trivium), they have all switched to the Kemper and play direct (no cabs) so they do not need to transport Cabs anymore, and they plug in direct to mixing desk at every show.


    When I invested just over a month ago into the Kemper, I wasn't just doing it to get all the sounds but also for practicality when gigging.


    I understand all of the points above, but I am now confused as to what I should do when I do decide to perform with the Kemper live for the first time. I am still learning a bit more every day so I am sure there must be something I am not quite understanding yet.


    Like I mentioned above, the bands I mentioned are plugging in direct and no cabs, and hey must be having good sound if they are using it direct but based on some comments above, you are saying that the sound isn't great going direct which is confusing as to why these bigger name bands would go direct if the sound was bad?


    Trying to understand, thank you everyone for your help! ^^

  • the cab is purely for the players enjoyment i believe. So you have the great direct sound going to the PA as normal, and you also enjoy the feeling of a guitar cabinet on stage, thats how i see it anyway

  • When playing live, the Kemper sounds GREAT when is is plugged directly into a quality PA system.


    If you will be working in venues with good monitor systems (and/or IEMs) you may not need to take any kind of cabinet with you.

  • Two 1x12 KEMPER KONE'S could easily handle the volume levels you would need. How the human ear perceives different amp volumes is all to do with sound pressure levels, which uses a logarithmic scale (dB). More wattage does produce higher volumes, but the difference in volume between a 25 watt amp, and a 100 watt amp is not as much as you would expect. The 100 watt amp will be about 6 dB louder than the 25 watt amp. There's a difference, but a 25 watt amp is not four times louder than a 100 watt amp; it doesn't work like that. Even a low watt amp, say, something like a classic 18 watt valve amp, can be loud enough.


    I used to use a Marshall 100 watt, 2x12 JCM800 valve amp back in the day, and I never used it on full volume because it was just too loud. I always regretted not buying the 50 watt, 1x12 Marshall, which I had tried out first. It sounded a lot better at the volumes I was using, because it would break up earlier. It was ideal for pub and club work, and a lot easier on my back! Before that, I had an unreliable early 1960s, VOX AC30, which had more headroom than the Marshall, so it was better for clean sounds. Again, it was more than loud enough, and I never used it on full volume. And, yes, it was also very heavy!


    You don't need a 4x12 stack these days, because PAs are so good. If you feel like you do need the extra volume, then just mic the amp though the PA. I've just put two KEMPER KONE'S into my two Line6 1x12 DT25 cabs, they were a perfect fit, and they sound fantastic. They have loads of bass, a great stereo spread, and they are very loud. A KEMPER KONE can handle 200 Watts, so I could pump out 400 watts if I needed to, but I will never need that sort of volume, ever!

    While it is true that 6dB is the difference in SPL with 4x power increase, that is only true through the same speaker configuration. If you take a speaker like the V30 - power efficiency is 100dB at 1 watt. Two of them is 103 dB at one watt and four of them is 106 dB at 1 watt. So a 25 watt combo amp with a single speaker is 12 dB quieter than a 100 watt amp head into a quad box of similar efficiency speakers.

  • It's the amp-in-the-room-thing. But, you can't feel it at very large venues, and you have to go through a PA because no one would be able to hear you. The days of walls of 4x12 speakers cabs has gone, because PAs are just so good these days. Although, some bands still like to give the impression that it still happens. Most of the speaker cabs will be backups or a dummy cab.


    Basically, it all depends on the size of the venue you're playing. I would go direct into the PA at large venues, and use a cab at small venues. But, if you're happy going through a PA all the time, then go with that. Less gear to lug around!