Kabinet Kone - 2x12 loud enough for band?

  • First, (and this is just for me), I feel that the most important aspect of the Kemper is its ability to sound great through a good PA ..... followed closely by how easy it is to setup and take down at the end of the night. I am accustomed to using IEM's for monitoring, so whatever noise the cab is making is lost to me anyway.

    Where the cab (or Kabinet) makes a difference is in the action of the strings (you have to move air near the strings to get that pleasant ring and sustain).

    For people who used to the unbridled fury of an on-stage cab as their monitoring of their playing, the Kabinet is a great option as it gives you that "amp in the room" feeling you don't get even with a good PA and even the very best IEM system.

    For .... well, lets say less than "good" PA's, and bands that have wedges on-stage for monitoring, the Kabinet gives you good tone despite the bad PA and less than optimal monitoring situation.

    Having my KPA going direct into the PA has been my go-to rig since 2013 now. For live gigging, KPA is simply unbeatable in my book. This is especially true for cover bands who must run a very wide range of guitar tone in one set.

  • I just received the Kemper Kabinet. It's pretty incredible.

    Here is my situation for practice at home, and what I want to do live.

    - I am using the Kabinet for practicing at home and with the band

    - In a live setting, I do not want to bring the Kabinet and would prefer plugging direct

    How can I set up the (practice at home sound with Kabinet) so that when I play live (Direct, no Kabinet) that the sound is the same (Or close).

    I am assuming, I would have to not use the Imprints with the Kabinet since whatever sound I set up with those, if I am playing direct live, then I will have a very different sound?

    Right now I have (Kemper Kone) in output selected and Monitor Cab Off.

  • I think people need to forget the notion that people playing big gigs somehow have this amazing sound onstage.
    It’s all a compromise at best. It’s just a matter of setting levels where you can hear yourself and the rest of the band as best you can. I will spend all of 30 seconds getting the monitor guy to eq my monitors onstage so it’s a little kinder to the guitar then, I move on to getting my levels sorted so I can hear me and the rest of the band.

    Unless we have a major problem, we keep our sound checks as short as possible and get back to the hotel for a shower and a rest.
    There is no amp in the room sound at any gig bigger than a pub or a bedroom. The best thing about the Kemper and the like is the ability to setup in a couple of minutes (especially at a festival) and have the same sound onstage and out front every night. Straight to monitors and straight to pa.

    Even in the days when I had a stack of 4x12’s onstage, as soon as you moved just to the side of them, the sound was gone to almost nothing. Over the years, you just get used to what the sound is like on the rest of the stage from a 57 to the side fills and the rest of the wedges. In the end, that mic’ed 57 sound is fine everywhere else on the stage and you forget about ever having a big back line.

  • For me it isn't so much what I hear on stage, I just want to make sure that what people hear is what I hear when I am practicing and setting up tones at home through the Kemper and Kabinet.

    If I am going to plug direct to a mixing desk would the audience get the same sounds that I set up using the Kabinet and Kemper?

    I guess there's only one way to find out, and just have to pop my (Live with Kemper) Cherry.. Haha .

    Thank you for the responses, still helping me understand more and more!

  • Vinny has it right.

    The fact is that the tone you hear while practicing through an amp of any kind is not what the audience hears. Lets just take the case of a traditional tube amp and cab before we get the Kemper involved.

    1) Guitar cabs are notoriously directional. Depending on where you stand on stage, you will hear either piercingly loud guitar, or nothing but a muffled semblance of guitar. Directivity alone prevents the crowd from hearing what you hear when you practice.

    2) So you graduate from using just your guitar cab on stage and add an SM57 through the PA (I used to like the Sennheiser E609 or the upgraded version E906 better than the 57 though). Now you have introduced a TON if variables to what the audience hears. First, the mic. Second, the mixer and channel eq being used, third the speakers, fourth the room acoustics, etc, etc. If you have someone to mix your guitar intelligently from out front (even if it is set and forget), you are likely to get a pretty good FOH sound .... but it will not sound like your amp in a room with you.

    3) Now you decide that this is silly. Why haul a tube amp and 4x12 cab up on stage if all you are going to do is mic a single speaker, send it through a mic, the mixer, and the FOH speakers to get the sound that the mix sounds good with? ..... so you buy a Kemper. No cab, no stage noise (which gets into every other mic on stage and makes mud out front), and as pointed out, very consistent sound night after night. The on-stage monitor is for you to hear what you are doing. Sure, we all would love to hear what makes us the happiest, but that isn't necessary for a great FOH sound .... although it does effect how much we may be into playing that night. No one likes to hear crap through the monitors all night ..... so ...... on to 4)

    4) Now our Kemper is going straight to the FOH, the FOH sound is fantastic (as long as the mix is setup well for the speakers), and now we need to keep the person playing that guitar happy with what they hear. For those that really want to hear the "amp in the room" sound just like they did when they were practicing, ....... enter the Kemper Kabinet or Kone. Now, you run your main L/R to the FOH mixer, and the monitor out to your Kemper Kabinet. I still recommend putting the Kabinet on a slant mount pointed toward your head (and at the back of the microphone if you have a vocal microphone). Now YOU get that amp in the room sound exactly like you practiced it, and the audience gets a good mix.... the best of all worlds.

    The key take aways here are:

    1) What you hear on stage is NEVER what the FOH sounds like. Never has been, never will be.

    2) Kemper KPA with Kabinet is the best solution for getting the best FOH sound AND the best monitoring solution for what YOU hear on stage.... at least IMHO.

  • very well said OneEng1

    even with a wall of Marshalls the sound out front is nothing like on stage. i remember seeing bands in the 80’s when it wasn’t uncommon for technical difficulties to mean that the venue was opened and the audience let in before sound check was finished. i remember hearing Ritchie Blackmore with a wall of Marshalls in 84 during soundcheck. When the PA was on the guitar sounded great. When it was off the guitar was very dull and indistinct.

    I also remember playing gigs with a Dual Rectifier and 4x12 cab in halls with 1200 people and massive PA where the FOH engineer complained he struggled to get a decent mix because the guitar was too loud even when muted out front. The funny thing is it didn’t sound that loud on stage and was actually the best on stage sound I had ever experienced.

    i have’t used a 412 since the mid 90’s as they are really a liability for good outfront sound.