Profiles of an amp with different gain settings (and more)

  • For the last half year - since I own the stage - I tested a lot of profiles from RigExchange and some I bought. Now, I'm the classic rock/blues rock guy, so I'm not interested in high gain / metal profiles. Therefore, I always looked for Marshall, Fender or Vox Profiles and their different clones from the boutique world.


    The one thing I always felt very strange of amp profiles was the multitude of profiles made by the same user of the same amp. Ok, I understand and did it myself: when profiling, you can do it with different settings on your amp, especially if it has two of more channels. But most often, what I usually see and hear is that the sounds mainly differ in gain settings. When I select a profile as a candidate, I often use a profile with low (0 to 3) gain level. I think it is my job when tweaking a profile to set up the gain level to what I need. Often, in performances I use the morphing function, where for lead parts I turn up the gain level of the profile (besides other things).


    So I never chose a profile with mid or higher gain levels. But I find out when playing with these profiles and turning down the gain level to 0..3, I'm just hearing the same sound as those with their sibling profiles where gain was already set up to this level. So I'm wondering: why do people produce so much profiles of an amp? The differences of those profiles only seems to be a question of the gain settings (and some slight different EQ settings on the amp). So, to me, these multitudes of profiles are simply overkill, often annoying to test.


    Another thing I don't like with much profiles: they come with WAH-effect on slots, with (multiple) EQs, with Delays etc. If a profile is not declared as an effect profile, those stomps should just not be there. It is the user's task to make a Rig from a Profile.

  • I like higher gain amps and profiles. I think this phenomenon varies from amp to amp. Some amps don't really change tone all that much when you add gain. They just get gainier. This is particularly true of master volume amps that are deriving their gain mostly from the preamp. I have found that profiles of non master volume amps do not always behave this way. Taking profile #3 and increasing the gain to the level of profile #8 doesn't necessarily sound just like profile #8. Which is a good thing, since it gives you a few more sounds to work with. This behavior may be different with lower and mid gain amps. I do agree that some authors get carried away. I bought a profile pack for the Soldano SLO 100 that had something like 125 profiles in it. A wide variety of channels, gain levels, different cabs, different mics and mic combinations. It was tiring. In the end I ended up deleting the whole set. I found one author I really like. I stopped buying profiles from other sellers unless they are running some uber big discount. Then I'll try a few.


    I actually like it when people add effects to their profiles. More often than not I end up deleting the effect but occasionally I'll find a gem - either a new setting on an effect I already use or an effect I have not yet tried. I rename them and store them for future use.

  • I am a fan of extensive profiling and big packs!


    Many profilers finetune their results with different effects in the Slots (eq block, shapers, pedals like boost...) or adjusting parameters (like Definition, Tube Shape, Power Sagging…) in order to make them sound as authentic or good as possible.


    I like it, when they add the "raw" profiles as well, so that I have a good (neutral) starting point to make my own adjustments.


    It is true that some profiles of the same amp sound "similar" with the same amount of gain (and same cab!). But often similar and not necessarily the same. I like nuances ^^


    Try this with profiles you think they sound the same:

    Turn up the bass, mids or treble wide (same amount of course) - compare the gain structure again. If you heard a difference, turn down the extreme settings and have a listen again. Can you now hear the different nuances?

    Same can be tested with Definition settings.


    Listen to both profiles without a cab. Often you can hear quite a bit of difference now!Try both profiles with another cab (same on both) and listen how each works with different cabs.


    And when playing loud, maybe some profiles sound almost the same, but they do not always react / feel the same (with different pickups, guitars…).


    Just a few ideas...


    In terms of "to many profiles in the pack". Some of us own 100.000+ profiles and still need more variety ;)

  • The answer is quite simply that amps do not respond in a linear way. Therefore the more you move away from the original profile ( changing gain and EQ on the KPA) the less authentic to the original amp it sounds. That doesn't mean it sounds bad, just not as authentic. Therefore profilers do as many settings as possible to cover the Amp, assuming most people will chose the closest out of the box.


    I agree with the effects although they are easy to remove and do not affect the base profile.


    I hope in the future that the KPA can use multiple profiles to allow the KPA to respond the same way as the reference amp but the processing power etc probably makes it not doable...I question how much its needed as well...

  • Actually I guess once an Amp (+ eventually cabinet, mics etc) is ready to be profiled, it's not a big effrort to change settings and grab another 'screenshot' out of it. it just takes 1 minute or 2.


    I mean, Usually from each amp. I get a couple ot cleans, 2 or 3 crunch and one or two Lead Sounds, .. let's say 3 main settings and one alternative each. that's probably enought.

    But If you don't know exactly what kind of sound You're looking for (or if You're not the only one who's gonna use those profiles) well it's easy to end with 12..15...20 profiles of the same amp.

    Of course 125 Profiles seems a bit excessive, ..


    About the Effects, .. well it's ok to find them already there: it can be usefull to undestand better what that profile it's supposed to be or just to discover different effect' settings You've never explored before.

    If You don't like them, just turn them off or change them with Your favourite effect preset. it's not a big issue.

  • When you audition profiles in rig manager editor - just lock all the effects/stomps to be 'OFF'...as you scroll through the different amps.


    It was really frustrating before the editor to do this - but fab now :)

    PRS Custom 22's - Fender Strats - Diezel VH4 - Carol Ann OD2 - Toneking Imperial MK2 - Colin the Kemper - CLR Neo ii.

  • When you adjust the gain on the Kemper it's not the same as adjusting the gain on the actual amp. Same with bass, mid and treb etc. So you get multiple profiles of the same amp with different settings so you can stay as close to the original as possible.

  • When you adjust the gain on the Kemper it's not the same as adjusting the gain on the actual amp. Same with bass, mid and treb etc. So you get multiple profiles of the same amp with different settings so you can stay as close to the original as possible.

    Might be true; people have different ears, imaginations and fantasy.


    But as I do not have the real amps - and mostly never ever had - I do not care. Because I am using the Kemper for playing at home and with my cover bands, and never in studio environments, I do not care about some minor settings that come with profile packages. I know, amps with multiple channels produce different sounds for each of them. But when I am just interested in one of them, I do not need 5 or more different profile settings. The base sound of an amp can be clearly differentiated against another turning gain down. This is what I am interested in when trying some profiles. When one of them I really like and use: well then I make my own settings with it on the Kemper. I never used a profile just as it was downloaded (as some people swear about).

  • Nobody's forcing you to evaluate all possible profiles, CarloLf. Myself, I know that the profiles I care about are typically in the high 5's to low 7's gain wise, so I sort by gain (either in the Kemper or Rig Manager) and focus on those areas in order to make the selection process more manageable.

    So I guess what I'm saying is I don't see what the problem is. More is more, it's easy to filter out what you don't care about and if somebody's baked a few FX into the rig there might be good reason for it - on occasion I've found a few profiles that really had some life breathed into them from a built-in effect that I might have passed over otherwise. Don't like effects? Use the lock function to disable them en masse when auditioning.

    With a looper pedal it's possible to make short work of evaluating profiles spending maybe a couple of seconds on each one, in the space of an hour you can whittle down hundreds of profiles to just a handful if you know what it is you're looking for tone-wise.

  • Not so. The first pass always involves a general "does the spectrum & style fit the mix" to cull the the herd. After that, I can be as picky as I want to be. In general, most profiles ARE uninteresting - very much so! About 1 in 50 seems to be my hit rate; these are the ones that I let hang around long enough to see whether they're keepers or not. YMMV, of course.

  • So I never chose a profile with mid or higher gain levels. But I find out when playing with these profiles and turning down the gain level to 0..3, I'm just hearing the same sound as those with their sibling profiles where gain was already set up to this level. So I'm wondering: why do people produce so much profiles of an amp? The differences of those profiles only seems to be a question of the gain settings (and some slight different EQ settings on the amp). So, to me, these multitudes of profiles are simply overkill, often annoying to test.

    as others have pointed out, the fact that there are more profiles than you need doesn’t mean you need to use them but if they aren’t their you have no choice. Also modern society perceives quantity as a measure of value more so than quality (probably because it’s easier to compare and also easier to market). I am happy to have plenty of options to choose from but that’s just my choice.


    as for the gain aspect you referred to; as mentioned earlier in the thread the effect of changing gain in a profile depends very much on the type of amp profiled. Turning up or down the gain on a non master volume amp doesn’t sound the same as profiling that amp at different levels. A while ago I had a theory that, because the Kemper profiling process includes all the information up to the highest level of gain for the amp’s current settings (the amplitude of the profiling signal increases through the full range while processing), reducing the gain in a profile would sound the same as turning down the amp whereas turning up the gain would cause the Kemper to need to guess how the sound would be affected by increased volume. This wasn’t the case. I profiled the same amp (THD Bi-Valve) multiple times with the volume a all points (using the clock face hours method) until completely cranked. No other settings were changed. I then loaded profiles into performances to allow me to instantly A/B between them. In each performance I would take a profile of a specific amp volume (say volume at 12 o’clock) and check the gain setting that Kemper computed for this ( lets say it was 6.3 for example). Next I to a profile with a higher natural gain level (say volume on 4 o’clock showing gain of 8.2) and adjusted the gain of the profile to match the first (6.3). Next I took a profile with a lower level of natural gain and increased the gain to 6.3. Stored the performance and switched between the rigs while playing. They did not sound the same. What I found was that turning down the gain in the profile was more like turning down the guitar volume than reducing the amp volume.


    i did’t go through the same process for master volume amps where the distortion comes mainly from the pre amp. I suspect the outcome may be quite different and altering the profile’s gain may have less impact on the tone and feel thn with a non master volume amp though.