Kemper or the Axe FX II? Few questions before I buy

  • I am finally ready to buy either a Kemper or AxeFXII. Im ready to buy NOW. I know all I need to know about the Axe, now I come to you who own Kempers for your insight on the Kemper. As it stands now, I am leaning heavy towards the Kemper, a few days ago it was the AXEII. I have listened to as many youtube and Soundcloud clips as I could find and I'll be dang if the Kemper tones dont sound better to my ears than the AxeFXII clips. This is no knock on the Axe, I was all set to get it but when I hear clip after clip of big roomy, killer metal tones and full crisp clean tones I cant help but to listen in awe and sway towards the Kemper. I do hear great Axe clips but honestly to my ears they lack a certain something when I compare them. This has made me reconsider getting the AXEII now. One thing I frequently hear is about how much you have to tweak a preset on the Axe to get a good tone. That doesnt excite me much. :) With the Kemper you just load a profile and your set! Less tweaking and more playing. Of course the Axe sports some great effects which would be nice to have.


    I am a metal player. I am mostly concerned with hi gain amps, but I would also like some great clean tones as well. I play alot of neoclassical music, straight classic metal, modern and even some death metal.


    A few things regarding the Kemper gave me pause and I was hoping some of you hear can help me with my questions.


    1 - Recording - If I get the Kemper I will mostly be using it for recording. I heard the USB doesn't enable direct connection to your computer. What kind of interface will I need to interface with my MAC? I use Logic as my DAW.


    2 - Computer editor? - Has anyone heard anything in regards to a future update of an editor like the Axe Fx Axe Edit so you can zoom through rigs, organize, tweak, save etc? I really hope something like that is in the works.


    3 - Kemper problems? - I have heard of some problems with the kemper and its still Beta and may not be reliable. Frequent crashes, freezing etc? Any validity to this if so how widespread?


    4 - Online clips - When I listen to most examples of Kemper clips online, they sound huge. They feel like they are in a room, pushing air, the Hi gain amps are in your face, the clean amps are solid and you feel them. Are these a result of good mixing or do these profiles really sound that good? I didnt really notice this with many of the AXE FXII clips I heard.


    5 - Kempers Future updates? - Any info on what we can expect from the future in regards to the Kemper Amp? I would hope for somekind of computer software like Fractals Axe Edit.


    6 - For those who own or owned an AXEII how well does it stack up to the Kemper? I know they are different beasts but in your honest opinion. Do you miss the effects? The extensive editing etc?


    Thanks so much for everyones help. I'm so close to buying A kemper, I just would like to get some answers to these questions to help seal the deal so to speak. :0


    Thanks!

  • Hi, thats not an easy decision! It mostly depends on your needs and the way you like to work.
    The advantages of the Axe II
    - USB Audio
    - nearly endless high quality effects and very advanced routing posibilitys
    - Dual Amping with quad cabs (two in stereo)
    - PC/Mac Editor
    - available footswitch (Kemper will have one too)
    - tonematching lets you match your sound to an isloated guitar track of your favourite artist
    - rackmountable


    The advantages of the Kemper
    - profiling actuall amps sounds better than tonematching (IMO)
    - easy and userfriendly interface
    - steady growing library of high quality profiles
    - lower price (1000€ difference in germany)


    Of course you will always find someone who will argue over these points, but I think this sums it up quite ok. Depending on how important some of these points are to you, I would make my decision.
    If you choose the Kemper you will need some kind of interface to your mac, since it won't support USB audio, since its hardware is not made for that. The interface could be USB or Firewire. Presonus makes really good interfaces and if you choose the Kemper, you will have some money left for that. ;)
    I guess there will be a PC/Mac editor of some kind, there are many threads in this forum about it.


    The Axe is probably the better "All-in-one" unit. Since you can do anything with it and don't need aditional hardware. But its much more complicated to dial in really great sounds.
    If the Amp sound is the most improtant thing to you, I'd go with the Kemper, since no matter how great an axe 2 patch sounds, a great kemper rig, sounds better IMO.
    Stability is a main concern if you're planing to do midisetups of any kind, mostly a live problem atm. The Axe also has some crashing issues with every firmware. Just keep yourself informed online on the "dos & don'ts". (e.g. don't use "&" in a rig name ;) )


    Since the Kemper is the less expensive unit why don't you just give it a try? You have money back, so its no risk at all. (If the prices were switched, I'd suggest to try the axe first)
    I can also pretty much guarantee you, if you take the time to get to know either of these units, you will be satisfied with either one. Since they're both great.


    Either way, welcome to the board :)

    Edited 2 times, last by Steeldom ().

  • Without a doubt the Kemper. No contest. I never thought the Axe sounded all that great to begin with. Even the Scuffham plugins sound way better imo. The AxeFX does higain pretty well though, but the Kemper still beats it in that department as well imo.

  • Let me start by saying I have never owned an Axe. I do love the Kemper but it has its shortcomings. All of which will probably be resolved, but the question is when. My issues are as follows:


    Editor/Librarian: IMO it has taken far too long for this to come about. I know to most this isnt a huge issue, but to me its paramount. Its such a huge pain trying find things when you have over 300 profiles. I just recently got rid of all but 48 profiles, and its still a pain. Some kind of organization needs to be done.


    Performance Mode: As of today it is still not usable. Ive had my Kemper since early February. Dont really know what the deal is with this, but it needs to be addressed.


    One delay/no midi parameters to control delay.


    Instability: I have not experienced any yet, other than one corrupt profile. But alot of others have. (I will say FW 1.08 seems to be pretty stable for most)


    USB to transfer profiles: I wish I could just connect the already included usb port on the Kemper to my computer and do my editing, organizing on the computer.


    Now here is the good......the Kemper sounds just unfreaking believable! I mean you really feel like you are playing through an amp. Tweak time is minmal......VERY MINIMAL. But contrary to what others have said, if you want to tweak, you can get radically different sounds. The eqs in this thing are just top notch and there are so many. Stomps, globals, para's. They are all really really good. Responsiveness to playing is just spot on. Ive never had it this good with any modeler I have owned. Profiling is really cool, and super accurate. Some users have created some really great profiles. The build quality of the Kemper is just top notch as well.


    I cant tell you what to buy. Ive heard clips of the Axe 2 and have been floored by them (mostly Zentmans on TGP). But Ive played through the Kemper and its a joy everyday. It has what I need and more soundwise. Its just not a complete product yet. I had to make the decision months ago Axe or Kemper. I feel I made the right decision for me and my playing style. As Steel said above, the AXE is a complete all in one solution. You would have to get an interface for your DAW to use the Kemper with it. There are pluses and minuses to each unit. BUT both are outstanding pieces of gear and I dont really think you could make a bad choice either way. I know its a difficult decision, but you can try one out and if it doesnt work for you, you have 30 days to return Kemper, and I think 15 days for the Axe (not sure on that one). I wish you the best of luck, and please let us all know what you decided and why, and how you like whatever you chose!

  • This is the $650 question!


    If you already have a DAW and interface, the Kemper is the answer!


    If USB connection and pc-editing is very important to you right now, then the AXE II is the answer!


    Obviously, Kemper is going to have pc-editing, midi-controller, tone-matching(probably) and such, in the near future, but not everyone wants to wait for it.


    My thinking went: Let's assume, for the sake of argument, that the AXE and Kemper are equals in terms of realistic tone(which they are not, IMO). Would you spend $2500 for a unit that puts out great tones or $1850 for a unit that puts out great tones? i.e. if cost is a consideration for you then: is AXE $650 better than the Kemper?!?!? What could you do with a Kemper and $650+ more dollars in your pocket?


    Bottom line is either of these are amazing machines. Any guitarist can make either of these work for them. You can't go wrong!

    "Heavy Metal does have a message for the rest of the world: Fuck You!" -Sebastian Bach

  • Let's not forget that the kemper also can profile amp patches from modelers.


    Kemper profiling the Axe fx by Keith Merrow (Keith got hate mails by fractal owners for doing this)

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    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v…I&feature=player_embedded
    Many Axe-II and other modeler patches are profiled and uploaded here by users.
    I always prefer profiles of real amps though.

  • Hey Guitarmanjac,


    welcome onto this board :)


    I've direct experience with an Axe Ultra and a KPA. But I've been listening to both for practically their whole lifetime, so with ant FW version.


    I can almost always tell the Axe in a blind (online) A/B test. The Axe has got its sound signature. This is not bad in itself, but the fact that the KPA has no sound signature tells something about its ability to faithfully reproduce an amp IMO.


    The way I went is this: I don't want and don't need tons of fx: several good fx are enough for me! (LOL) And I know (believe) Kemper will add more fx in the time.
    A great-sounding valve amp is enough to make me happy, I want something I can just turn knobs over, like in a simple amp. If I can have hundreds of great-sounding valve amps in a lunchbox it's a no-brainer to me.
    The KPA delivers the promise of giving you a super amp on steroids w/o any of the related hassles and drawbacks of a complicated machine. And, a rack version is on its way, as well as a poweramp to fit the KPA back.


    As for things being not yet ready in the KPA, I see buying a KPA as an investment: you buy once, you evolve (in FW) forever: another no-brainer for me. Things would be different if there were some specific function/service I needed now because of my business or my artistic needs, but it's not my case. I'm sure things will come: Kemper has developed a solid reputation as a hardware designer and about consistent and quality FW updating/upgrading, and they are a German firm: it's all I need in order to trust them.


    IOW, I'd not compare the two machines on the basis of the currently available services, but rather on the promise each platform delivers. I fell in love with the KPA sound, and can wait for the rest to come.


    Last, I could never understand those who state that the KPA is only suited for those who own some amps to profile. Nor those stating that they don't want to rely on other's sound choices. As if this weren't true for any modeller...
    The truth is, that if you need an AC30, or a JCM800, you have tenths of choices, which you can tweak more than it's commonly understood. Impossible not to find your sound IMO. And in the KPA's still short lifetime, the quality of profiles has steadily grown, along with users' experience. I'm sure it will go on growing :)


    Edit: almost forgot: my PC came natively with a SP/DIF port, and I'm sure one can be bought inexpensively as an additional card in case. An option worth considering IMO :)



    Just my opinions of course.

  • 6 - For those who own or owned an AXEII how well does it stack up to the Kemper? I know they are different beasts but in your honest opinion. Do you miss the effects? The extensive editing etc?


    I still own both, Axe 2 from day one, and Kpa since first shipment arrived in the USA, I think the best would be if you could buy both and decide for yourself, then return the one you like less, both can get you great tones, i still use the Axe 2 for all the gigs I do, for many reasons, now specially since version 6, with the tone matching and amp matching you can get as close to any amp sound with either unit, don't listen to what some people who are biased say about one or the other, I've tone matched and profiled the same amp, the results were identical, and contrary to what some people might be saying in forums, No it's not hard to do on either unit, assuming people can read basic instructions, another thing is, it seems KPA's at least in the USA/EBay seem to be going very cheap, look for a deal there(look at the prices on finished auctions) if you go with the KPA. For me since Axe 2 version 6, don't really need to keep both and the AXE 2 isn't going anywhere.. like i said try both, don't go by just some posted clips, as some of those don't really represent what can be done with both Axe and KPA, what you're hearing is some people idea of a great sound, i have way over a 1000 profiles on my KPA, and honestly while it's nice that everyone is posting their profiles either i have strange taste for what I like, or a good % of those profiles kind of suck.. :)

  • " it seems KPA's at least in the USA/EBay seem to be going very cheap"

    Don't know what you mean, I was watching to buy a KPA on eBay since a while and they are rare and not especialy cheap ( not less than $1600.00 ). Of course they are cheaper than a AFXII which is normal considering that they are a lot cheaper new.

  • Don't know what you mean, I was watching to buy a KPA on eBay since a while and they are rare and not especialy cheap ( not less than $1600.00 ). Of course they are cheaper than a AFXII which is normal considering that they are a lot cheaper new.


    Well the reason i looked at Ebay was that I'm considering now selling mine, I'm on tour for a while and it's just sitting at home, so I looked at "completed items" which as you know will show how much they sold for, and found one that had sold for $1482.00 on May first, and one for $1575.00 sold on May 4, so it doesn't seem they hold value very well.. but I'm not willing to give it away for those prices, especially when i'd still have to pay the Ebay + Paypal fees so I'll wait a bit and try to sell it locally ..or just keep it and see what Kemper adds to it..

  • with the tone matching and amp matching you can get as close to any amp sound with either unit, don't listen to what some people who are biased say about one or the other, I've tone matched and profiled the same amp, the results were identical, and contrary to what some people might be saying in forums, No it's not hard to do on either unit, assuming people can read basic instructions,


    My experience when using tone match and profiling is very different.
    They are not the same thing and will not give the same results. I have been doing eq matching a long time with computers using ozone and it's exactly the same thing as the tone match in the axe-fx II that I use. I can get the same results like the Axe by using the tone match in ozone with a software amp.


    Profiling captures the dynamic response and feel of the amp with attack, compression, distortion and eq.
    Eq match will only grab the eq frequencies from a recorded tone, not the feel or anything else from the amp. Profiling is a technique that no other product use and I can see many advantages compared to the eq match that I've used before.

  • Profiling captures the dynamic response and feel of the amp with attack, compression, distortion and eq.
    Eq match will only grab the eq frequencies from a recorded tone, not the feel or anything else from the amp.


    From what I hear that's already in the modeled amp on the Axe 2, IF you start with a similar amp/speaker cab, your basic sound is already there, then by shooting a cab IR, and tone matching, the result in my opinion as as good as anything i've gotten out of the kpa, it's Not the same as just using a plug in to EQ match, there is more to it, I've done EQ match with plug ins for years myself.

  • bravo dotore ai parlato bene :D :thumbup:

  • Well the reason i looked at Ebay was that I'm considering now selling mine, I'm on tour for a while and it's just sitting at home, so I looked at "completed items" which as you know will show how much they sold for, and found one that had sold for $1482.00 on May first, and one for $1575.00 sold on May 4, so it doesn't seem they hold value very well.. but I'm not willing to give it away for those prices, especially when i'd still have to pay the Ebay + Paypal fees so I'll wait a bit and try to sell it locally ..or just keep it and see what Kemper adds to it..

    $1500.00 à $1700.00 for a used KPA is not what we can consider a steal. Don't forget that KPA are easy to buy new in a lot of retailers. AFXII keep its value better mostly because of the long waiting list, which make it artificialy more desirable.

  • i strongly advice you to check an axe fx ii with your mac if the usb interface feature is an important matter to you.
    there is a 90% possibility that it will not work, the causes seems to be astral interferences and voodoo.
    For me, it didn't work, but that was a month ago, maybe something is changed

  • Got both the KPA and Axe2.


    Tone-matching works quite well, I can hardly tell the difference between the KPA's profiling and Axe's tone-matching as DigitalTube already mentioned. Currently I'm using the Axe2 live - because of the perfect integration with the MFC, better "hybrid setup possibilities" (FRFR to PA and guitar cab for monitor) and because I had bad luck with the KPA live (it froze several times :( once you loose confidence it's hard to trust the unit again). In terms of sound Axe2 FW6 vs KPA... both are f**** great!

    MJT Strats / PRS Guitars / Many DIY Guitars -- Kemper Profiler Rack / Kemper Remote / InEar

  • As the original poster asked for an opinion:
    I made an informed decision here: http://kemper-amps.com/forum/i…page=Thread&threadID=4017
    KPA sounded significantly better to my (then totally unbiased) ears.

    For new users, wanting to click on this link, it will produce another "forum" in the adress, which you have to delete. This is a bug in the forum, which has been discussed around here. Just don't be irritated, that it won't work.