classic metal tones done with EQ matching

  • Nobody tried the Van Halen yet? I am curious about your opinions...


    How much does depend on your guitars?

    Thanks, man, I think it sounds great! We need a "Tills Appreciation Thread!" Your contributions to this community can not be understated!


    I tried using both active and passive pups and with a little EQing with each, of course, you can get really close to the tone.


    Here's a couple more possible classic tone suggestions that could be desirable to a lot of folks:


    Cliff Burton "Anesthesia Solo" (Bass)
    Zakk Wylde with Ozzy "Crazy Babies"
    Zakk Wyle with Black Label Society "Stronger Than Death"
    ACDC "Highway To Hell"


    Van Halen "Eruption Solo"


    Thanks, Tills, you're an awesome dude!

    "Heavy Metal does have a message for the rest of the world: Fuck You!" -Sebastian Bach


  • ACDC "Highway To Hell"

    Actually i did this one, but i am not totally satisfied yet. The less the gain, the harder it gets to match the sound by EQ. Also the original has a heavy compressor sound on it and i am not sure yet how to realize that with the KPA because you will need more like a classical studio compressor tone here with a longer attack time. We will see...

  • Yes good distorted bass amp would be cool cause for the moment the kemper and bass sound disappoint me. I expected so much more in that way.


    Count on me to try to make some tone match profile as soon as i have a kemper (if i'm able to do it !)

  • Btw: Isn't it easier and more "neighbour friendly" to use a guitar simulation instead of a real amp for the final profiling process? I don't hear a big difference between an amp with a mic (my Rectifier) and an amp emulation (in my case EZmix 2) after changing the EQ curve with Ozone.


    I haven't made a profile with an amp simulation yet so I´m not 100% sure if & how this works.

  • Regarding the bass: Maybe its because most bass sounds in modern metal productions consists of two or three individual tracks which are blend together: DI and/or bass amp plus distortion.

  • I was working on Killswitch's distorted bass sound last night but couldn't get close enough with Ozone no matter what.


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhejPhdnwj8


    Till, have you ever tried to profile a distorted bass sound?

    No, not yet. You mean that ozone couldnt match the tone? I only had the strange behaviour that for exteme scoop guitar sounds (like demanfacture, pantera or life of agony) the ozone plugin got the sound pretty good, but the KPA could not profile it with the exact same sound. This only seems to happen with those extreme scoops.


    For bass, i am not sure if tonematching is capable of reproducing stuff like compression, which is a major component of a bass sound.


    The cliff burton solo from kill em all might be easy to match because of the high distortion, maybe i will give it try.

  • Btw: Isn't it easier and more "neighbour friendly" to use a guitar simulation instead of a real amp for the final profiling process? I don't hear a big difference between an amp with a mic (my Rectifier) and an amp emulation (in my case EZmix 2) after changing the EQ curve with Ozone.


    I haven't made a profile with an amp simulation yet so I´m not 100% sure if & how this works.

    Sure, that will work. But what´s really great about using a tube amp+ match eq + KPA is that you will still get the dynamic behaviour of a real tube amp with your "signature" sound. Most modellers and software amp suck as soon as roll back the volume on your guitar. It think the combination really makes sense. What might be worth a try is using a DI sound of your tube amp with ozone.

  • No, not yet. You mean that ozone couldnt match the tone? I only had the strange behaviour that for exteme scoop guitar sounds (like demanfacture, pantera or life of agony) the ozone plugin got the sound pretty good, but the KPA could not profile it with the exact same sound. This only seems to happen with those extreme scoops.


    For bass, i am not sure if tonematching is capable of reproducing stuff like compression, which is a major component of a bass sound.


    The cliff burton solo from kill em all might be easy to match because of the high distortion, maybe i will give it try.

    Yeah, Ozone couldn't match the tone, the crucial mids are just not there. I gonna ask a friend to set up a marshall jcm 800 with a bass box in his studio, grab a jazz bass and profile the whole combination. Blend this together with a clean DI track for the lows and it might work.

  • Tyler, did you use a real amp to make those profiles ? , i was wondering how did you profile them.

    Like i said before, all high gain profiles were done with the JVM in OD2 orange mode at the same setting. Just regard your DAW with the ozone match eq as an effect device that is between the mike of your amp and the return of the KPA. First you analyze the frequency curve of the original tone you want to match. Then you record the same riff with your own amp, which will of course sound different, like your own amp does. Then you analyze the sound of your own amp. Then both curves are compared and the resulting "differential" curve is applied to your own amp signal, which will make your own amp sound like the one from the original source. Then just take the profile with that eq curve enabled. Sounds way more complicated than it actually is.

  • Ok thank you, i firstly understood that you use a profile and somehow re-profile this profile after tone match.


    Damned, use an amp will difficult for me, i will see, arf i was putting a lot of guitar tracks on my daw and i wanted to tone match a lot of sounds !

  • Ok thank you, i firstly understood that you use a profile and somehow re-profile this profile after tone match.


    Damned, use an amp will difficult for me, i will see, arf i was putting a lot of guitar tracks on my daw and i wanted to tone match a lot of sounds !

    The problem is that the KPA cannot "reprofile" a profile. But the more i think about it it might actually work. Imagine you would record the dry profiling test signal sequence on your DAW during a "fake profiling" session. Then you could reamp the test signals though the KPA with your desired sound onto a second audio track in your DAW. Then you could apply the tone matching to your KPA test signal track. When you feed that signal back into the KPA in the right moment when a taking a new profile by just playing back the recorded test signals it could work. Worth a try :)

  • The problem is that the KPA cannot "reprofile" a profile. But the more i think about it it might actually work. Imagine you would record the dry profiling test signal sequence on your DAW during a "fake profiling" session. Then you could reamp the test signals though the KPA with your desired sound onto a second audio track in your DAW. Then you could apply the tone matching to your KPA test signal track. When you feed that signal back into the KPA in the right moment when a taking a new profile by just playing back the recorded test signals it could work. Worth a try :)


    I'm intrigued by this. A couple things that I think would need to be true for this to work:


    1) The KPA doesn't constantly analyze and readjust the test signal as it plays the test signal


    2) The timing between when the KPA "sends" the test and when the signal is returned for analysis is not part of the analysis itself. In other words you hitting play on your recorded test signal wouldn't have to be synced precisely with the output test signal from KPA.




    If the above is true, let me take it a step in another direction. Take your dry recorded test signal. Send it into your prized Klon pedal (insert whatever actual pedal you want that the KPA can profile), into the Kemper using whatever rig you want to re-profile it with and then record it to a second track. Provided that my two point above aren't a concern, feed this prerecorded track into the KPA during a profiling session. This would allow me to profile my own real stomps "in front of" someone else's profiled rig and save them as a new rig. The next step is people sharing these stomp-infused test signals - example - Honey Bee test signal.wave


    Awesome possibilities!

    "Tone is in the fingers" is not a necessary response to anything that I might type on any internet forum threads. Thank you.


  • I'm intrigued by this. A couple things that I think would need to be true for this to work:


    1) The KPA doesn't constantly analyze and readjust the test signal as it plays the test signal


    2) The timing between when the KPA "sends" the test and when the signal is returned for analysis is not part of the analysis itself. In other words you hitting play on your recorded test signal wouldn't have to be synced precisely with the output test signal from KPA.

    2) This is no problem, since the KPA compensated for latency.


    about 1) i´m not sure.


    Actually I have just testet this and it really works!!! But the resulting profile sound different than the source. Maybe this needs more investigation...

  • This profiling method isn't working for me ?(


    Im using ozone 5 through Audicity. I have matched eq's from original recording to my recording but cant seem to get the eq applied tone when profiling. Just sounds the same as my reference amp.


    In the other Eq matching thread it talks about activating real time monitoring? Im not sure how to do this. Im hoping this is my problem.


    Any help would be appreciated.


    Thanks

  • Youtube links are not suitable then I guess?

    You need a reference track and a dry track playing the same stuff in order to match using Ozone. Practically you can match only what you can play, quite fair actually! :D :D :D

    "Music is enough for a lifetime, but a lifetime is not enough for music" Serghei Rachmaninoff