Questions before buying Profiler

  • Hello, I am about to buy Kemper Profiler but I have mixed feelings about the product, please help me to dissipate them.


    Just to give background: I am playing and recoding just at home, no live playing, no gigging, nothing. I play Pink Floyd songs.


    I was also more or less considering Fractal, Line6 Helix etc. but somehow I always got back to Kemper, as it seems that lot of my idols on Youtube went for Kemper, so there must be something..., however I have some questions:


    1) Profiler seems to be quite overpriced in terms of hardware, for sure one microcontroller and couple of buttons, so I was expecting very good software (check on youtube, its really one or two PCBs and interconnected jacks). I tested the stage version in shop, it got stuck twice, I needed to disconnect it from power source. Is it normal or you dont have such experience?


    2) no USB audio interface, I know,.. it is for studios, there are a bit higher-endish interfaces already, however, I think for such expensive device, adding one USB coming from DSP should not be a harm. I will connect to SPDIF on my Focusrite Scarlett, then USB-C to PC, from PC with optical output to my AV receiver (becuase simply I have it already on my table), from there to passive monitors/headphones. Do you think this setup can work?


    3) not many people are using built-in reverb/delay and they use their own plugins in DAW, are there that bad? I think they should not be recorded and it is matter of mixing, to adjust reverb/delay anyways.


    4) there are two options, to buy a used device for 1300EUR (2015-) or a new one for 1650EUR. If I buy a new one (Toaster) do you think it can still hold its value? Is Kemper planning some other product, which can take down the price? Is there some failure rate of used devices? I saw just diodes fail after some time.


    5) what do you think about BIAS FX 2 or Neural DSP? People are saying, Kemper sounds better, however why should it be? In PC you have far greater performance, and you can adjust the effects in your monitoring/mixing then, why people are going for hardware instead (those that are not gigging)? Why did you specifally go for Kemper in case you record on your PC?


    Dont get me wrong, I am willing to buy Profiler in upcoming days, I just need to "confirmation" sometimes.

  • I’m an old guy playing in a couple of classic rock bands. I got my Toaster 7 yrs ago. It still sounds and feels better then any digital platform I’ve played.
    I bought a Stage when they first came out and (knock on wood) have had no issues

    I gig several times a month

    I find the reverbs and delays more then adequate. The only short-comming might be needing some more od and dist stomps.
    it’s easy to use Like I said I’m just an Old Tube Guy (69). And it’s the best piece of gear I have ever bought and it appears to be holding its value very well

  • I'll try and answer as best I can, but for some of the questions I use my kemper differently so I'll have to give a best guess.


    1. I've never really felt the kemper was overpriced given how expensive the AxeFX is, and even that the Helix is not that far off price wise, but of course the it's only worth what the customer will pay so YMMV on that one. In terms of the issues you experienced; I have the toaster and haven't really had any issues at all. At the end of the day it is essentially a small computer running a very basic OS and as such it might crash every now and again, but generally speaking for me it's been fine. I haven't used the floor unit though.


    2. This was something I was surprised about too. I don't use it plugged in to the computer, but since one of it's intended uses is studio work, you would have rightly assumed it could function as an interface via the USB. Like I say I don't use it with the computer so for me it doesn't matter, but I can understand it being an irritation or even concern.


    3. I use the delays and reverbs in the kemper head and have no complaints. They sound as good as any others I've ever used so take that as you will.


    4. I had this thought too before buying as I only bought mine around 12-18 months ago at which time the kpa had been out a good few years. From what I understand kemper 'got it right the first time' (their words not mine), and have no intention of bringing out a kemper 2. Now I can't say whether that's true or not regarding ever making a kemper 2, but I have to agree they got it right, and I don't see a massive reason for a kemper 2. I don't see how it could sound or feel better, so it would just be something like a colour screen? I don't know, that doesn't much matter to me, but if you're not sure then used is the way to go. If they did bring out a kemper 2, you'd lose a little money on the kemper resale but not much if you bought it used.


    5. I haven't used Neural, but I did used to own the bias amp head. It was fine, but that's about all I can say for it. The kemper blows its amp tones out of the water. Not tried biasfx so I couldn't comment on the kemper vs bias with effects.


    I decided on the kemper as I'm normally a set and forget guy with amps, but it doesn't stop me wanting to try out different amps. Buying and selling amps isn't practical but buying a new profile pack is, so I chose kemper. I just use it at home with the kemper kone and don't see any real reason why I'd choose to go back to a traditional set up, the kemper just feels and sounds so close to what a traditional amp does that it's almost indistinguishable from the real thing, so why wouldn't I want the flexibility of picking different amp profiles whenever the mood hits.


    Hope that helps

  • but somehow I always got back to Kemper, as it seems that lot of my idols on Youtube went for Kemper, so there must be something...,

    Oh yes. I think the broad acceptance and use of the Kemper by Pros is a good sign in addition to the facts. The other units and approaches you mention are all valid and might have their advantages in one or the other situation. And it might be a matter of taste in the end as well...

    And it’s the best piece of gear I have ever bought and it appears to be holding its value very well

    This! Exactly my feeling about it. Gigs, recordings, creative processes, song writing, re-amping and mixing... I use the Kemper in all of those situations and it's a great tool for all of this. Nevertheless it needs some time to learn all the beauty of the concept and to find the personal favorites etc. - but it's definitely worth it :thumbup:8)

  • 1) Profiler seems to be quite overpriced in terms of hardware. Try buying a boutique amp. The Kemper has access to 15,000 amps. I think its cheap. since I bought one I have never looked at another amp since. you are looking at the hardware, that is only part of it. Having had mine for 6 years I've had multiple updates with real upgrades. all free...



    2) no USB audio interface, I know,.. it is for studios, there are a bit higher-endish interfaces already, however, I think for such expensive device, adding one USB coming from DSP should not be a harm. I will connect to SPDIF on my Focusrite Scarlett, then USB-C to PC, from PC with optical output to my AV receiver (becuase simply I have it already on my table), from there to passive monitors/headphones. Do you think this setup can work? No idea. I use a focusrite and use the XLR input. Easy.


    3) not many people are using built-in reverb/delay and they use their own plugins in DAW, are there that bad? I think they should not be recorded and it is matter of mixing, to adjust reverb/delay anyways. Reverbs and delays have had a recent upgrade which make them pretty damn good. Many people use DAW's for convenience etc.


    4) there are two options, to buy a used device for 1300EUR (2015-) or a new one for 1650EUR. If I buy a new one (Toaster) do you think it can still hold its value? Is Kemper planning some other product, which can take down the price? Is there some failure rate of used devices? I saw just diodes fail after some time. I have been running and gigging mine for 6 years, no failures. My ENGL was a similar price, I had a few failures...no comparison


    5) what do you think about BIAS FX 2 or Neural DSP? People are saying, Kemper sounds better, however why should it be? In PC you have far greater performance, and you can adjust the effects in your monitoring/mixing then, why people are going for hardware instead (those that are not gigging)? Why did you specially go for Kemper in case you record on your PC? For studio base, other options are more convenient. The view is the KPA has the best real amp sound, thats its main selling point. To be honest, the new digital crop are all good ( Bias, Axe FX, Helix etc.).


    Hope that helps.

  • I have tried many different units and none come close to the Kemper for sound and usability.

    Another day without one is a day wasted! 8)

    On top of that, this forum has some great members and everyone is willing to offer good advice, not sarcastic advice that others seem to have.

    'You can lead a horse to water, but a pencil must be lead' - Stan Laurel

  • I can't address the studio use questions but here is my 2 cents on the others:


    The Kemper is a bargain as far as I can tell. I have less invested in the profiler, remote, two mission expression pedals, an FRFR cab, extra cables, profiles, and a Pelican case that holds all of it, than the cost of one of my pedalboards.


    In addition to my use of my Kemper rig, I rented the whole thing out to a backline company for several month. It was used by God knows how many bands, road crews, etc. It came back with one of the TRS cables for the expression pedals bent (the metal part of the plug was actually bent!) and a slight yellowing of the store knob, which likely means folks with dirty fingers had used it. Other wise, no damage, and no failures of any kind. Oh, yeah, the case came back with a ridiculous amount of stickers on it (musicians, sheesh!) This seems to indicate that these things are quite roadworthy.


    As far as holding value, a quick check on Reverb.com will answer that.

    Be Thankful.

  • Ok I will go for new probably, because of following reasons:

    - warranty

    - if 5 years old device can be sold for 1300eur then i think its good to have freshly new one for 1650eur. Its just 350eur and i could sell it for 1400eur for sure if i did not like it (hopefully i will).

    - i just like new things, when it comes to hardware.


    thanks for all replies.

  • Kemper just revamped the Rig Manager interface this year and made the Profiler much easier to edit and tweak. I wouldn't worry about a Kemper 2. You'll probably want the Kemper Remote too.

  • I was also more or less considering Fractal, Line6 Helix etc.

    One additional thing to consider is that Fractal and Line 6 products are both amp modeling designs. Kemper is a profiler, and that's not a fancy word for amp modeling. It's a very different approach.


    You can get excellent end results with modeling. Whether or not you enjoy the journey depends on how much you enjoy tweaking, because you have to build your sounds from the ground up. Pick an amp, tweak the knobs, choose a cabinet, pic the mic, place the mic, pick your stomp boxes, tweak the knobs, etc. Not much different from a real amp in that regard, but that's the thing. I kinda suck at dialing in good tones from scratch, and I don't enjoy the tweaking process. I just want to push a button and play guitar.


    The Kemper approach, on the other hand, is based on a profile that's essentially a snapshot of a single amp / speaker / stomp box setup. Someone has already dialed in the tone, and a profile represents that single tone. It's like being in the studio. The guy in the live room gets his tone where he wants it, the engineers mic it, and that's what you hear in the control room. You can certainly dig in and tweak a ton of stuff in the Kemper, but the selling point for me was that I didn't have to. The sound of profile A not doing it for me? No problem. Let me try profile B. They're all complete and finished tones, each doing one thing very well.


    There are over 10,000 free ones in Rig Exchange, but I started out buying some commercial packs from a few highly regarded profilers. I figured that would show me the very best that the unit could do. It's important to find profilers (free or commercial) who are into the same style of music as you, because they'll instinctively dial in good tones for the style you want to play (you wouldn't want a classic country player dialing in your death metal tone, right?). I found the right guys for my style and have loved the results. And I haven't had to tweak a thing. I just pick the profile I need, push a button, play guitar.


    If you really like getting into the tall grass and spending hours sculpting your tones, you can pick a good basic profile that gets you most of the way there and then tweak to your heart's content. However, unlike the amp modeling approach that Fractal and Line 6 employ, you don't have to. That was a big selling point for me.


    Anyway, hope this is useful. People often assume that all amp modeling products are the same at heart, but the Kemper is its own thing. I think that's why it's done so well.

    Kemper remote -> Powered toaster -> Yamaha DXR-10

  • I bought a new device for 1420EUR, because shop wanted to get rid of it (customer did not pick up in the past and it was longtime in their shop).

    I started to play with it a bit, but sofar I am quite positively surprised - it sounds very very good.


    1) I am about to connect to my focusrite 2i2, however I am not quite sure yet how - I dont have SPDIF on my scarlett, should I connect L channel to one audio interface and R channel to another one? The signal coming from Kemper is stereo right? Is each interface on my scarlett Mono input?


    2) Kemper has ethernet connector, if I go just with USB do I get all features?


    I will check manual this week, I am just too young to read manuals at first :D Learning by trying.. Thanks for recommending KPA, I cannot wait for trying some commercial profiles.

  • should I connect L channel to one audio interface and R channel to another one?

    Yes Martin. Typically the left channel to an odd-numbered input on an interface or desk, and the right to the even one immediately-following it.


    So, 1<->2, 3<->4 and so on.

    The signal coming from Kemper is stereo right?

    By default, yes, but you can change it to mono if you like.

    Is each interface on my scarlett Mono input?

    I don't have experience with that unit, but typically interface inputs are mono; only the headphone out is a stereo jack.

    Kemper has ethernet connector, if I go just with USB do I get all features?

    You certainly do.

  • Regarding the idea that the KPA is overpriced based on the hardware. You're not paying for the hardware. In a very literal sense, you're paying for the code running on it. In some ways, this is Microsoft owning the code while IBM keeps the hardware. The software (or in this case, firmware) is what matters most.

    Some do, but by and large guitarists don't care about how 'powerful' it is. We're still in love with amplifier tech developed in the 1800s and guitars still rooted in designs from the late 40s and early 50s.

    Since its release in 2011, Kemper has been using the *exact* same hardware. On the toaster and rack models, the delay block still ships with two LEDs, even though their usefulness ended years ago. If it ain't broken - don't fix it.

    Competitors have released a number of new hardware versions. None of which have left Kemper 'in the dust'. No disrespect intended for Fractal, they are *excellent* units. It's an entirely different approach. One apparently far more reliant on processing power. But since 2011 they've released 3 new versions. Also, AxeFX 1, 2 and 3 all have their own specific firmware. One cannot run on another and development for old units stops at some point.

    If you were to buy a first-run KPA, still in the box.....you can update it to have the same capabilities as one built tomorrow.

    As for delays and reverbs, previously they did leave a lot to be desired. The release of the new delays and reverbs changed that. I've seen several people sell their Timelines and Big Skys and using the KPA only. I sold my time-based stuff when my KPA showed up.

    “Without music, life would be a mistake.” - Friedrich Nietzsche

    Edited once, last by Ruefus ().

  • Totally agree.


    Its seems that the KPA remain as relevant if not more as the software gets it updates....


    My point here is that go buy a a high end amp. I was looking at the new Diezel...£3100....even if you argue that the KPA sound isn't quite as good, its not close to the flex and versatility for double the price...to me its cheap!


    I used to run an ENGL Invader and its virtually the same price and the KPA is way better!

  • The versatility of the Kemper brought me to the shocking realization I needed more guitars.8)

    That was true for me too. :) You can have too many pedals but you can' t have enough of guitars. :thumbup:

    Think for yourself, or others will think for you wihout thinking of you

    Henry David Thoreau