Do I need a new interface or a good headphone PreAmp?

  • Hey fellow Kemperians,


    I'm in the mood to spend some money and I need your help for that. In short, I want to make better recordings. And I rely on your opinion to know what I should upgrade next.


    My momentary situation is looking like this:

    For drums I'm using EZdrummer with 2-3 extensions and I'm quite satisfied with the sounds I get from that software. So I do not plan to upgrade it to Superior Drummer, except there will be a special offer or something.

    My bass is a little crappy (Epiphone thunderbird, cheapest version), and will be upgraded as soon as I can get my hands on a good used one.

    Guitars (Ibanez S5470, RG1570 and a Fender lite ash strat) sounds are coming -you guessed it- from the Kemper. So in theory I'm quite fine with the possibilities of forming my sound, but I think I'm restricted by my monitoring situation (and of course my lack of knowledge for choosing sounds, mixing ect).


    My room is not optimal and not treated at all, it is a standard living/working room with desks, windows, cupboards, a big carpet and high ceeiling ( 3 meters?).

    My monitors are Yamaha SH7 without a subwoofer, but sadly, with a wall directly behind them. The distance between the speakers and me is something about 1,2 meter. They are "disconnected" from the desk by thick foam pads.
    I have to rely a lot on headphones (Sure SRH 840), well, at least I think I have to do that, because I can't say at all if my monitoring is any useful or not.

    Secondly, I do not live alone. So I can't blast loud music everyday, especially when it is the same some over and over and over again while mixing.


    My interface is an old (7-10 years????) Focusrite Saffire 6 USB, which to my knowledge, is the precurser of the Scarlett interfaces and basicly the same hardware.

    The kemper is recorded through the main out into the preamps of the interface, because this old thing doesn't has SPDIF.

    I can say that the pres are influencing the sound only to a minor extend, so in theory I'm fine with them. I compared Kemper>directly to monitors with Kemper>Interface>monitors and I was okay with the -very little- difference in sound.

    My big problem with this interface is the headphone amp quality. The kemper sounds like sh*t. No comparison to the monitors or the glorious kemper out. I use it quite often to mix and I think that this is the particular weak point which is messing with my mixes.


    So my possibilities are at the moment:

    - a dedicated headphone amp for my old interface and recording the kemper through the preamps (cheapest option, 50-150 euro)

    - a new interface with SPDIF and a good headphone out (200-500 euro?)


    -If I go the cheaper route, I could think about other additional upgrades like:

    get another headphone with an open back system like beyerdynamic 990 ect

    buy something like sonarworks reference software for identifiying weaknesses in the room/monitor sound


    What do you think woud benefit me the most?

    A better headphoe sound (by a external preamp) + a "room correction" software threatment

    or

    going digital with SPDIF and get a higher quality interface?



    So far,

    thanks for the answers

  • You're on a good way Nordan with a lot of good thoughts around your stuff. Good view and ideas :thumbup:


    Personally I would rather start with a better interface in this situation. One which fully suits your needs and can take the central position in your setup with good quality - including a better headphone out if possible. If your interface is a limitation sound-wise it will not disappear when combined with an external headphone amp I'd say.


    Nevertheless I'm using a rather old interface as well (M-Audio / AVID Fast Track C400) which works quite well for me including SPDIF which I use a lot. But the SPDIF as such does not bring super major sound improvements. It allows some things but it is way less essential then a good headphone out or even monitoring.

  • Hey deadman42,


    sure, a better interface should be never a wrong idea! I just thought by getting an external headphone amp, I could avoid the crappy headphone out of my Saffire and get the same sound that my monitors are fed, which I think is quite okay. My Interface has 4 channels out, 2 are occupied by the monitors and the other two are used for reamping-signals, so I could use these for the headphone amp.


    You are correct, SPDIF shoudn't be a day-night difference in terms of sound, but a dedicated Kemper-interface communication cable pair would be useful for future applications. Because I already see myself unplugging/replugging cables everytime I want to reamp or mix and that sucks.


    So, thanks a lot for your input.

    And sorry for my late answer, I do have a lot to at my job and not much time for internet.



    Perhaps someone else was in the same situation as me and wants to share their thoughts?

  • Because I already see myself unplugging/replugging cables everytime I want to reamp or mix and that sucks.

    This! Make it pragmatic and easy to use. Less hurdles in starting creative process will be beneficial...


    And sorry for my late answer, I do have a lot to at my job and not much time for internet.

    Don't worry. This is a very relaxed and friendly forum. Nice people here... :)

  • So my possibilities are at the moment:

    - a dedicated headphone amp for my old interface and recording the kemper through the preamps (cheapest option, 50-150 euro)

    - a new interface with SPDIF and a good headphone out (200-500 euro?)

    A 3rd option:

    Plug one set of your audio interface's outputs into the Kemper. Then you can monitor your DAW and your guitar from the Kemper's headphone output, and get that killer sound. I use this mostly. (for the reasons you describe) But can also just plug the headphones into the audio interface, or use monitors at any time. In the RIG menu, there is a panorama control, so you can pan the guitar signal to hear the daw playback easier when tracking.

    I forget right now what they're called, think it's alt. input and return input you use for the cables.

  • A 3rd option:

    Plug one set of your audio interface's outputs into the Kemper. Then you can monitor your DAW and your guitar from the Kemper's headphone output, and get that killer sound.

    That's a good idea and I will give it a shot on this weekend,

    playing is great on the kemper headphone out, but I never considered something like mixing.

    I will make a small testmix and see how it translates to other sound systems.

  • Update:


    While the idea from Lobsta was quite fine, I miss a lot of top end stuff through the Kemper's own headphone amp. It is fine for playing along to a backing track or choosing sounds while reamping, but mixing is rather difficult (well, that is indeed not the job of this headphone amp, so no fault here ;) )


    This! Make it pragmatic and easy to use. Less hurdles in starting creative process will be beneficial...

    After two further days of thinking, my decision is: a new interface. Plug everything into it and never touch it again!

    My requirements are 2-4 inputs with at leat "okay" preamp quality (won't use these too often, but recording acoustic guitar vocals will be done from time to time), SPDIF, MIDI, powerful headphone amps.


    I was struggling with choosing the right one, but compromised my thoughts on these three: Focusrite scarlett 8i6, Focusrite Clarett 4Pre or Presonus Studio 86c for various reasons. Although I read good things about the headphone out quality, I kicked the Presonus from my list because of this weird midi/SPDIF combo-plug thing.

    There are a lot of things to read when you want to compare Scarlett 2nd gen and Clarett interfaces, mostly that the clarett PreAmps are better (there are a couple of sound clips that proove this, i.e. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1t74lLm40E) and that Claretts have an additional "air" mode, which simulates whatever-circuit-from-whatever-famous-focusrite-preamp. Also, the headphone out seems to be way better on the Claretts.

    But now the 3rd gen of Scarletts also have this air-mode and a more powerful headphone out. So, the question is:

    Scarlett 816 for roundabout 250 € or Clarett 4Pre for 500 €?
    The clarett 4pre is nearly twice as expensive, but seems not only to be big step further in sound quality, but it can drive headphones up to 600

    ohms, while Scarlett is 250 ohm max. And to my understanding this tells me that 250 ohme are rather suboptimal because they get rather poorly driven. And I will buy some open-back headphones like the famous Beyerdynamic 990 (pro?) with at least 250 ohms in the future.


    So my guess is, it will be the clarett. Otherwise I will always ask my self again: should I have invested more money to get something better? Do I suck, or is it my interface?

    I will think about that again for a couple of days. Because I'm still interested in this Sonarworks software (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stm1yxxxKU8). I could buy Scarlett 8i6+this software for roughly the same price as the Clarett interface.


    Spending money is hard 8)

  • I use a Mackie 1642-VLZ4 Mixer (so I dont have to keep unplugging and plugging stuff) and a Apollo Quad with a Thunderbolt card installed, and on some days I still sux. ;) The point Im making is "buy the best Mixer and Interface your budget will allow", and you will be happy for a long while whether you sux or not. Hope that helps!

    If you use FRFR the benefit of a merged profile is that the cabinet is totally separated in the profile.


    For my edification only... ;) Kemper/Axe-FX III/ Quad Cortex user

  • I will give you a tip before you start gassing all over the internet for your next purchase in the seeking of great tone.


    First discover your bottleneck, if from the kemper directly to any other source you find it sounds like bliss, then, the next step will be your soundcard. Going digidal via spdif is one choice, but any interface with decent preamps will give you great results, the line out of the kemper is quiet and has enough Vrms per channel, so preamp wont colour the sound too much. Now you should try headphone outs and direct outs to any other sources, if you find your headphones lacking in comparison to direct outs to your studio monitors, then maybe are your HP, or the Headphone preamp/Amp in your interface (dont freak, many good interfaces get away with the bare minimum on the monitoring headphone department, as studios monitors are most of the time the standard), then you can resolve if the headphones are the problem, if your kemper doesnt drive them enough, turn off the separation in the kemper to compare directly with the audio interface out at the same volume and check if your HP sound different or less ballsy in the interface, if thats the problem, get yourself a Headphone amp and use the line outs in your interface to feed the preamp.


    Last suggestion, check what others use, one of the most common combos around here, are Scarlett interfaces with a DT770 pro 80 Ohm or Audiotechnicas M50s.

    The answer is 42

  • Update to all of you,


    I spend another week of thinking and decided to not do any compromises:

    After trying out 2 cheaper heaphone preamps I purchased the Focusrite Clarett 4Pre and use the Kemper completely digital from now on. The headphone sound improved drasticly and is quite similar to the one on the Kemper, but lacks a little bit oomph and warmth (which the kemper adds on purpose to please us guitarists 8) ).

    Also the headphone out is powerful enough to drive my old 600 ohm AGK 240 df headphones.


    Additionaly, I bought the Sonarworks Reference 4 Software and I'm quite happy that I did! When I look at the frequenzy curve that this software has to equalize, I must say that my room is indeed crappy.


    And last, I replaced my old bass and got an Spector Legend Classic 4 TBM. It has the sound that I want and plays like a dream. Also the curved body is somehow pleasing to my belly ;D


    Thanks for all the input!