Most high gain profiles sound too grainy when recording?

    Hi guys, I'm still less than 3 weeks old with my Kemper Stage and learning more and more everyday but one thing that I am sure is as simple as finding the right setting perhaps(?) is that when I'm recording into a Digi002 / PT10 setup a vast majority of profiles just sound really "grainy and fizzy", even some of the cleaner amp types have some grain to them and I find myself rolling the GAIN control down but then that kills the character of the profile which is what I was looking for in the first place.

    Been running lots of experiments, right now I have coming out of the Kemper into the Digi002
    *Main/Monitor
    *SEND 1 (for direct signal to re-amp later if needed)
    *S/PDF


    **So each time I record I have 3 tracks armed; is this overkill?


    Bottom line is there a special trick or two to get the higher gain amps to sound nice and smooth?
    I poke around in the INPUT, OUPUT & AMP sections of the Kemper and sweep through every parameter like clean sense and direct out signal etc...
    I try and rationalize that maybe my DIGI 002 convertors are outdated and need a new I/O but then again IDK? LOL


    BTW, I have tried both single coil and humbuckers and find the same result so I discarded the theory of it being the guitar?

    Anyhow, would appreciate some insight from more experienced Kemper geniuses, I am certain this question is quite ambiguous as there could be many variables involved.
    Thank you

    :)

    That does sound like a high cut issue (which you can also adjust globally in the Output block). Dial it to taste, but it sounds good to me in the 8-10k range.


    Also, a lot of Kemper profiles are meant for recording, and high gain tones for recording often do sound fizzy when not in a full song mix. Do they still sound terrible withing the mix of a song?


    Can you post some clips? It might be easier to diagnose.


    One last thing - try turning down the clarity. I find that takes a lot of depth out of the profile.

    Quote from halipino

    Anyhow, would appreciate some insight from more experienced Kemper geniuses

    That excludes me. But I'll try anyway 8o


    3 tracks is not overkill. At least as long as you are experimenting and often that helps to find a suitable way forward. With more experience you might reduce this easily when having more confidence in the result then. I usually do at least 2 tracks via SPDIF: Git dry and Stack. Sometimes I capture the signal with stack but without cab via analog input in order to put other IRs / Cabs on it in the DAW. So many ways to find great sound...

    Quote from YoavHanuka

    i suggest you to add an Equalizer and set the hi-cut to 10K and the low-cut to 80.

    That's a good one. The more gain the more need to tame the high end. I always use high cut and low cut with each profile. But I tweak them on a profile basis, initially with headphones and then in the rehearsal room if they are meant for live use as well. Often I go down to even 7,5 or 8khz and up to 100/120hz for the low cut. For recordings that can be quite healthy and you can easily try the effect within your DAW as well and then transfer it into the Kemper.


    Finally: It's all a matter of taste but even with high gain recordings I tend to use reduced gain, especially when double tracking. Some say you shouldn't do this... but as always there are many ways to come to your sound...

    In a recording you often need less gain than you think initially. And besides, It is true some profiles have a phasy zing or grit which may be annoying especially when playing on your own without any background music. Many profiles in rig exchange are like that, and some vendors think in terms of a mix and not the guitar on its own so they tend to make profiles that are a bit thin and trebly. Obviously some people like sounds that others hate, so perhaps some may not hear the annoying frequencies you do hear.

    One more thing, layering various tracks is cool but it can also create phase issues like using various mikes. Do you hear the grain in all situations?

    Never too old for rock'n'roll

    Edited once, last by CJGOMEZ ().

    Like 3

    Hi joshriggs, I will try turning down the clarity as well. :)

    Quote from CJGOMEZ

    In a recording you often need less gain than you think initially. And besides, It is true some profiles have a phasy zing or grit which may be annoying especially when playing on your own without any background music. Many profiles in rig exchange are like that, and some vendors think in terms of a mix and not the guitar on its own so they tend to make profiles that are a bit thin and trebly. Obviously some people like sounds that others hate, so perhaps some may not hear the annoying frequencies you do hear.

    One more thing, layering various tracks is cool but it can also create phase issues like using various mikes. Do you hear the grain in all situations?

    Hi CJGOMEZ, yeah as I am cycling through 100's of amp profiles they almost all have that fizz which is pretty unwelcoming especially when it is something like an AC30 or TWIN which aren't that high gain of amps in the first place. When I scroll through the Marshall or Recto types it is unbearable sometimes. Every now and then I find a profile that has a nice smooth balance but I can't help thinking "this shouldn't be like this?"

    deadman42, lol what's that ol saying "If you know more than the next guy your a genius.." lol

    When you say "I usually do at least 2 tracks via SPDIF: Git dry and Stack", are you implying 2 separate performances/overdubs?


    I just looked, I have my SEND 1 OUTPUT set to: GIT ANALOG

    Quote from halipino

    When you say "I usually do at least 2 tracks via SPDIF: Git dry and Stack", are you implying 2 separate performances/overdubs?

    No, that's one thing, i.e. I play the guitar and fill two separate tracks with it. The Git Dry gives the opportunity to fully re-amp later on so it is the pure guitar signal from the Kemper input. The other one is with Stack - but without Effects which I usually add later on in my DAW (with few exceptions though).


    The third one comes occasionally out of the Monitor Out which i have set to Stack and marked the checkbox Monitor Cab off.


    But there are many ways for this. Never thought about using the send for this.

    Quote from deadman42

    No, that's one thing, i.e. I play the guitar and fill two separate tracks with it. The Git Dry gives the opportunity to fully re-amp later on so it is the pure guitar signal from the Kemper input. The other one is with Stack - but without Effects which I usually add later on in my DAW (with few exceptions though).


    The third one comes occasionally out of the Monitor Out which i have set to Stack and marked the checkbox Monitor Cab off.


    But there are many ways for this. Never thought about using the send for this.

    hmmm? interesting. This is my output right now


    halipino different settings here. But again, there is no right and wrong. Just a fit for purpose :) ...in my standard settings I do not consider recording a stereo track including the Kemper's stereo effects. In the few cases where I want to do this I either capture the Main Outs or change the setting on the SPDIF (in that case no Dry track via SPDIF but then via another output)...

    Quote from deadman42


    halipino different settings here. But again, there is no right and wrong. Just a fit for purpose :) ...in my standard settings I do not consider recording a stereo track including the Kemper's stereo effects. In the few cases where I want to do this I either capture the Main Outs or change the setting on the SPDIF (in that case no Dry track via SPDIF but then via another output)...

    oh thanks, I will try your settings and see what happens.. cool. It's all one big trial and error and this point.

    I don't know if this has already been mentioned - what do your rigs sound like directly in the Kemper, like through headphones? If it's wrong there, then Kemper settings in the rig are probably the issue. If OK through headphones then it must be something about your connection to the interface. Since you said even kind of clean rigs seem too gainy, maybe your output from the Kemper is just to high. Or doubling up somewhere so you're hearing more than one signal mixed.


    At least this might help you isolate where the problem is.

    Quote from cmbrowns

    I don't know if this has already been mentioned - what do your rigs sound like directly in the Kemper, like through headphones? If it's wrong there, then Kemper settings in the rig are probably the issue. If OK through headphones then it must be something about your connection to the interface. Since you said even kind of clean rigs seem too gainy, maybe your output from the Kemper is just to high. Or doubling up somewhere so you're hearing more than one signal mixed.


    At least this might help you isolate where the problem is.

    hi cmbrowns, yes it is through the headphones and/or monitors as I audition the profiles and this is through the DIGI 002. Are you suggesting I patch the headphones directly into the Kemper? That is one thing I have not tried yet, just been going into the recording rig. That is a good idea :) will try.

    Fizziness is rare in clean profiles. You may have a problem in the interface. There are profiles out there with fizz and phase issues, but there are lots that sound great. If most sound bad to you .. I thought you had already listened to the Kemper directly, but now I think It may be a DAW issue or something.

    Never too old for rock'n'roll

    Like 2

    I think I had an "AHA" - MOMENT (AND NO, NOT THAT BAND from MTV era hahahha)

    My Master Control has been set to almost full stop where it max's out around -0.2dB on the Main Vol. and the SPDF / Headphone Out reads at 0.00dB....

    *Could this be my mistake? Should the Master be way down around noon like -12dB


    So is this a cardinal sin with Kemper having the Master on full or anywhere near maximum volume?
    *Could this be my mistake? Should the Master be way down around noon like -12dB