How you get to your goal

    Hi everyone,


    I finally got my powertoaster (much later than planned) and have been fiddling as much as I can in the last few days.

    I've always been quick to learn technology so I figured out how most of it works without issues at all.

    I have to say I've been immediately struck by the sound, compared to various modeling software and gear I've been using it feels much more authentic right out of the box and I'm very happy about it.


    Where I am finding some difficulties though, is undestanding how to get to a specific result. Until now I had to find an amp/preset (or whatever) that sounded decent and then work from there, letting the piece of gear/software limits dictate, in part, the final result.

    It feels different with the profiler though. It seems to me the majority of the rigs (and I'm talking about factory + a few freebies) are actually usable and do sound good to a degree.

    The fact is, it's a bit disorienting for me at the moment, I also noticed that the controls of the amp section of the kpa, although different than an actual amp, are very effective and can get you the same result even starting with different profiles. So, how do you choose your profiles, where do you start tweaking and how do you work your way up to what you actually need?


    Do you prefer browsing through profiles or go directly to the one you think will do the trick? Or even go buy a profile you know to be close to what you want?


    I'm curious to know how you approach the whole thing.

    This is a massive topic, but profile paralysis can definitely apply...i.e. too much choice.


    My simple recommendations are:

    1) determine what you need - is it a good clean sound, cranked marshal etc. then focus on those to get your base sounds

    2) Look for profiles of amps that you know or want...I found my favourite profiles were Engl's.....guess what amps I used to play?

    3) Find a profile closest to the sound you want. If you can;t tweak it to what you want in 5-10 mins, move on. Sometimes the base sound of the profiles are not quite there. Many people do tweak, adding e.q. and changing loads of other parameters. For me I don't like to tweak just because I don;t know how to get the sound in my head, but I know it when I hear it. As a result the tweaking is unstructured as my ears aren't wired that way

    4) Use Rig manager to audition sound as this is quick

    5) Don't buy any until you are really struggling. Then try the free packs first. Having said that, many of the commercial profiles are excellent.

    Quote from V8guitar

    For me I don't like to tweak just because I don;t know how to get the sound in my head, but I know it when I hear it. As a result the tweaking is unstructured as my ears aren't wired that way


    4) Use Rig manager to audition sound as this is quick

    We clearly went to different schools together, as I have a similar mindset. In fact, one of the things I love about the Kemper is that it relieves me of my limitations in dialing in tones. Never was any good at that.


    Rig manager to audition is definitely the way I go. Since I spend my time in the studio these days, I'll typically grab a profile that's at least in the general neighborhood of what I'm looking for, but I'll record a DI track instead of the actual audio output. Then I'll set the playback in Cubase to loop over the part continuously and change the Input on the Kemper to reamp. At that point I can just browse around in Rig Manager to find the ones that sound good to me. I find this a much faster workflow than "Change profile. Plink on guitar. Change to next profile. Plink on guitar..."


    Also, what sounds good by itself isn't always the best fit for the mix. When using this technique I typically have at least bass and drums, but more often most of the song components. Letting the song loop with everything playing, I can tell how a profile sits in the mix.


    As for analysis paralysis, I often take a two phase approach to things. I'll do the above, and when I find something that sounds good, I'm done. Then I move on with the song, and often retrack the guitar since how we play is influenced by the sound of the amp. Later in the song's life cycle, I may revisit the guitar sound when everything else is pretty much set in stone. I don't delete the DI track (I always record one), so I can unmute it and then browse in Rig Manager to see if there's anything better. If there is, groovy. If not, I was already happy with the sound to begin with.


    Of course, how you approach it is a personal thing. Some people absolutely love tweaking and can spend an entire weekend doing nothing else and having a great time. Others, like me, are more goal oriented. I just want to push the damned button and play guitar, so I'm looking for the shortest distance between two points. That said, people are complex creatures, so there's all sorts of variations between the extremes. If you're goal oriented and feel like you're getting sucked into a tweaking vortex, try stopping with the first profile that sounds good. Then play guitar. If you reach a point where that sound isn't doing it for you anymore, go back to browsing. Find a new profile. Then play guitar. Perhaps you're sensing a theme here... :)

    Kemper remote -> Powered toaster -> Yamaha DXR-10

    Like 4

    Love your apporach on recording...I don;t record much but this process would be totally how I would do it... :)

    Quote from Chris Duncan

    what sounds good by itself isn't always the best fit for the mix

    This is so true, the guitar by itself always sounds so very different than in the mix. Having at least a backing track on while dialing in tones is very helpful.

    I also like your 'reamping' idea, thought of it myself but I still have to set things up to do this. Right now I have both the direct outs going in my audio interface occupying both inputs to get stereo, but I'll rethink the setup and see if it's possible to do this without moving cables around constantly.


    I'm also more goal oriented, I want to play more than I want to tweak profiles, that's for sure. Still, it seems to me that some clean or crunchy profiles are almost perfect as they are, but high gain leads are another matter. I have yet to hear a profile that delivers that smooth, sustainful sound without help from some kind of od/boost and some eq. And that's actually fine, because the original amp itself would probably need those.
    That's where the ability to lock effect slots while auditioning profiles (with the manager, I agree, is much better) comes in handy.


    Thank you both for the pointers, it's helpful to know how others go about this.

    Quote from markvs

    I also like your 'reamping' idea, thought of it myself but I still have to set things up to do this. Right now I have both the direct outs going in my audio interface occupying both inputs to get stereo, but I'll rethink the setup and see if it's possible to do this without moving cables around constantly.

    I have the luxury of a 32 channel audio interface, which isn't the norm for a lot of folks. Here's one thought on how you might have a permanent setup for reamping without having to spend money on an interface with more inputs.


    When I first got my Kemper, I was recording in stereo. Because, you know, there's a stereo out, so why not use it, right? However, after a lot of fiddling with mixes and the typical great advice I get from everyone here, I realized that juggling a stereo guitar sound was creating more problems than it was solving.


    As a point of reference, I come from a classic rock background, so a mix will typically have either a couple of rhythm guitars or a guitar and keyboard, either way chewing a lot of the same turf in terms of frequencies. A very large chunk of the music I enjoy was a guitar amp with a mic in front of the speaker. Even if it was more than one mic, it was often collapsed down into a single track. With mono guitar tracks, suddenly placement in the mix got much simpler and instruments quit fighting with each other. And back in the tube days, I always had mono guitar tracks, so in retrospect this was kind of a "duh!" moment for me.


    Opting for mono rather than stereo guitar is an artistic decision that often depends on your style of music. For example, if you're playing in a jazz trio with a singer, you might want a very wide stereo guitar / effects track to fill the space, so this isn't a one-size-fits-all solution.


    That said, here's what working in mono buys you for your particular setup. To give it a try, set your Kemper output to Mono. Then take the Master Output left and use it for your actual tone, going into your first audio interface input. Plug the other cable into Direct Out, going to your second audio interface input. That's your DI signal. Create a track for each. When you record, you can now always get both tracks without doing anything extra. Got a take you liked? Great. You also have a DI of it so that you can later experiment with reamping.


    The next part is audio interface dependent, but these days it's common for even two channel interfaces to have both speaker outs and a pair of line outs. If your interface does, and it shows up as an output target in your DAW, you're in business. Run a cable from one of your line outs on the interface to the Alternate Input on the Kemper. In your DAW, instead of routing the output of your DI track to your main mix (or guitar groups, etc.), route it to the interface direct out that you have patched to the Kemper Alt in. I have a template in Cubase so that there's always a DI track and it's always routed back to the Kemper Alt in. Because lazy.


    With this setup, you have no repatching of cables. When you're tracking, the Kemper stays like it is now other than the change from stereo to mono. When you want to reamp, mute the amp output track with your actual sound in your DAW, and unmute the DI track. On your Kemper, change your input to the Alt input. It will now play back based your recorded DI track. Bring up Rig Manager and browse to your heart's content while your song is playing.


    This setup is a zero dollars spent solution, but the trade off is moving from a stereo guitar track to a mono one. If stereo isn't a requirement for the style of music you play, it will not only give you a hardwired reamping setup but also simplify your life when mixing songs.


    Of course, if stereo guitar is a requirement, then this is just five minutes of your life you'll never get back. :)

    Kemper remote -> Powered toaster -> Yamaha DXR-10

    Edited once, last by Chris Duncan ().

    Like 4

    It's not so much that stereo is mandatory, especially when auditioning rigs, but my interface only has a pair of outputs so, as much I brewed on it, I couldn't come up with a solution to not move the cables around, I'm simply limited by hardware. Anyway, it's no biggie. Sure it would have been nice, but I guess I'll manage for the time being. I see it like this: this way, I'll be more proficient in tuning rigs on the fly! Meager consolation? ^^