Fractal Audio perpetual wait list

Quote from ColdFrixion

I own an Axe-Fx III and Kemper, and while most members here are well mannered, I've been engaged in debates on this forum regarding the Axe-Fx III that are far more toxic than anything I've been privy to on the FAS forum. Moreover, I've never been attacked on that forum for espousing my love of the Kemper.

Really? It just seems pointless to slag off other products as its about personal taste.

Sorry you've experienced that...I would expect to get a few light hearted jabs but shouldn't be toxic or personal.

Anyone that says the Axe-Fx units/Helix etc aren't a great product is an idiot. Early modellers are fair game though

Quote from V8guitar

Early modellers are fair game though

Hey, leave Jean Shrimpton out of this ...

I have been on the FM3 list for a year and I think the moment has passed before the invitation even arrived. I'm sure it is a great unit, but it should have been announced closer to the release time.

Their policy of serving some countries before others and a drip feed of product creates haves and have nots. There never seem to be any units in stock to sell.

Quote from ColdFrixion

And each one has turned out to be a fairly major upgrade.

With existing owners largely left out in the cold.

Quote from FarleyUK

And the one that doesn't have the toxic fanbase and the owner who's a complete jerk.

there are toxic fanbase for both products,.

Quote from Ruefus

With existing owners largely left out in the cold.

Are you referring to existing owners of a discontinued product?

Quote from SeanChristopher

I think it varies from person to person. I've been attacked on forums for having opposing views regarding the 2 units we're talking about. I've totally been attacked by a Fractal user for saying I love my Kemper and preferred the tones I get out of it. So it really can go either way on these forums and it isnt exclusive to any fanbase. But I've also experienced people being really cool and sharing insight and knowledge. I've seen both extremely toxic people, and really great people, on both sides of the fence.

I think the experiences vary so much from person to person. I don't think either the Kemper or Fractal fanbase is more toxic than the other. But I do think their fanbases are really passionate and sometimes individuals can take that a little far. But it's coming from a place of support for what they believe in so, it isn't all bad in my opinion.

Idk why I posted this lol. I'm not saying anything negative about you or implying anything negative. I guess I'm just saying that there's a lot of good and bad on both sides.

But of course, you're entitled to your opinion and we can disagree and still be cool

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I think it depends on how a comment is perceived by members of a given forum. In the case of the Fractal Audio forum, I've always made it very clear I love both units equally, so anything positive I say with regards to the Kemper isn't meant as an attack against the Axe-Fx, and that tends to diffuse any defensiveness that might normally result.

Quote from lightbox

Hmm? I can buy (and have bought) Strymon products from many retailers. And usually the products are on stock.

Sweetwater (last I checked) will not allow you to buy "new" Strymon products online, you have to call them. But you can go to eBay and get all the used you want.

Quote from spikey

Sweetwater (last I checked) will not allow you to buy "new" Strymon products online, you have to call them. But you can go to eBay and get all the used you want.

You can now, but that's a recent change.

A big part of my decision to go with Kemper was the philosophy of the brand - ie not in business to screw its customer base. Same reason I use Reaper DAW.

CK semi-philanthropist? I think so ....

Quote from ColdFrixion

Are you referring to existing owners of a discontinued product?

Of course. Grab an AxeFx II from 2011 and a Kemper from the same time.

Loading the latest firmware will get you 'close' with Fractal "very similar" is their chosen phrase. Kemper will be identical with no caveats.

I'm not saying one is 'better' than the other. The forum I'm posting this in says enough about that. Fractal's approach to upgrade development hinges largely on horsepower. Kemper's approach does not.

What I truly find fascinating about this is that Kemper's hardware and profiling process is unchanged since 2011. Yet it continues to not just hold its own - but truly compete with the latest and greatest from anyone you care to name. In the world of computers and hardware - I'm not aware of another example where a near-decade old design can still go toe-to-toe with all-comers.

Quote from Ruefus

Of course. Grab an AxeFx II from 2011 and a Kemper from the same time.

Loading the latest firmware will get you 'close' with Fractal "very similar" is their chosen phrase. Kemper will be identical with no caveats.

The last Axe-Fx II firmware will get you "close" to what? Kemper will be identical to what? I'm not clear on what you're referring to.

Quote from ColdFrixion

The last Axe-Fx II firmware will get you "close" to what? Kemper will be identical to what? I'm not clear on what you're referring to.

From Fractal's website:

Unbox a new Kemper today, load the latest firmware.
Find a 2011 Kemper, load the latest firmware.

There will be no difference in features, functionality nor sound.

Quote from Ruefus

From Fractal's website:

Unbox a new Kemper today, load the latest firmware.
Find a 2011 Kemper, load the latest firmware.

There will be no difference in features, functionality nor sound.

Obviously there are differences in features and functionality between when the KPA was first introduced in 2011 and now. As far as sound, modifications were made to the Kemper's profiling process a few years ago which altered the low-end, but the change wasn't significant. Having said that, there are a lot of people who've asked Kemper to update the profiling process because the accuracy of the results vary, and in some cases are notably inaccurate. However, Christoph Kemper has stated (NAMM 2018) that there's virtually no room for improvement. Whereas in Fractal Audio's case, their goal is 100% accuracy to their reference amps. The fact that they continue to make efforts to create the most accurate modeling possible is actually a good thing, in my opinion. And to be fair, Fractal Audio did continue to support the Axe-Fx II with new firmware updates even after it was discontinued.

I'm not familiar with many Axe-Fx owners that complain about new features/functionality added via firmware. Most new features/functionality that the company has added are excellent and generally welcomed with open arms by the community.

Quote from ColdFrixion

Obviously there are differences in features and functionality since the KPA was released in 2011. As far as sound, modifications were made to the Kemper's profiling process a few years ago which altered the low-end, but the change wasn't significant. Having said that, there are a lot of people who've asked Kemper to update the profiling process because the accuracy of the results vary, and in some cases are notably inaccurate. However, Christoph Kemper stated at NAMM 2018 that there's virtually no room to improve it. Whereas in Fractal Audio's case, their goal is 100% accuracy to their reference amps. The fact that they continue to make efforts to create the most accurate modeling possible is actually a good thing, in my opinion. And to be fair, Fractal Audio did continue to support the Axe-Fx II with new firmware updates even after it was discontinued.

I'm not familiar with many Axe-Fx owners that complain about new features/functionality that's added via firmware. Most new features/functionality that the company adds are excellent and generally welcomed with open arms.

My point is that you can buy a 9 year old unit and get the exact same functionality as a brand new one.

You cannot do that with Fractal.

Quote from Ruefus

My point is that you can buy a 9 year old unit and get the exact same functionality as a brand new one.

You cannot do that with Fractal.

Of course you can do that with an Axe-Fx; don't update the firmware. But your first statement is incorrect. Kemper's current features and functionality are not identical to its 2011 incarnation(eg. KPA editor for starters). And no, with Fractal Audio you get far better functionality, features and sound with their current vs. older generation units. That's considered a good thing by many people, including me. I love the improvements. If I wanted the exact same features, functionality and sound, I simply wouldn't update the firmware.

Quote from ColdFrixion

Of course you can do that with an Axe-Fx; don't update the firmware. But your first statement is incorrect. Kemper's current features and functionality are not identical to its 2011 incarnation. And no, with Fractal Audio you get far better functionality, features and sound with their current vs. older generation units. That's considered a good thing by many people, including me. I love the improvements. If I wanted the exact same features, functionality and sound, I simply wouldn't update the firmware.

/facepalm This is pointless.

Fine. You win.

Quote from Ruefus

/facepalm This is pointless.

Fine. You win.

No idea why you're getting defensive. I simply stated that your first statement is factually inaccurate, and I don't really understand why you consider improved features, functionality and sound undesirable. There are definitely a lot of KPA users who appreciate the new Kemper editor.

Quote from ColdFrixion

No idea why you're getting defensive. I simply stated that your first statement is factually inaccurate, and I don't really understand why you consider improved features, functionality and sound undesirable. There are definitely a lot of KPA users who appreciate the new Kemper editor.

It was a polite way of saying my point has apparently cleared your head by at least a foot. I can't tell if you're being obstinate or what.

We're done.

just a wild guess but all the Fractal units up to the FM3 were made in the US and capital investment and rate of production was a limiting factor.

The FM3 was/is the unit that's supposed to introduce the masses to Fractal Audio. Setting up production in China gave them access to mass production at a low cost to hit a very competitive price point. The problem was that just as the FM3 was set to release, the US and China went on a trade war. Then you had a once a century plague. On top of that you have the strange but to be expected production hiccups(headphone jack less units) and then the typical firmware issues that comes with new software.

I'm sure Kemper had challenges but it just seemed like a perfect storm for Cliff and the people at Fractal Audio. My thought is they'll weather the storm, a huge supply of FM3s will hit the market and you'll start to see them everywhere next year.