Restore separation between delay and reverb freezes

    After OS Version 5.7.2.14219, I noticed when triggering CC #35 with only a delay on, you could no longer activate a reverb and play a line over the looped delay with the reverb intact. When turning on reverb, the playable signal is now only dry. I used to be able to put on a reverb for a wet signal on top of a looped delay pad sound. I then downgraded to 5.7.2.14219, which worked as it used to. However, I eventually upgraded to 6 and was disappointed to learn that I could no longer play a lead line with some reverb on while the looped delay was active (which created a pad sound). I hoped the problem was resolved with the 7.5 update, but it doesn't seem this has been brought up. Note that I am using an external midi controller (Line 6 HD500).


    It would be amazing if someone could fix this issue in the next update as it allowed for such full sounded ambient guitar playing. I never had a problem with overload or clipping even with a 30 second reverb trail. Thank you!

    Control change #35 enables/disables Freeze across the whole Rig. If we wanted to introduce separate Action & Freeze MIDI control changes for every module, we might run out of CC numbers.


    You could use Legacy Reverb, which doesn't have Freeze and therefor stays unaffected, if you activate Freeze via MIDI CC #35.


    Or you could use a PROFILER Remote. It's Effect Buttons I-IIII allow to assign Freeze or Infinity or Rotary Speed by module.


    Or you send NPRN. In the related document you find controllers for "Hold" by module.

    There is perhaps another workaround, that might help you, based on the documented functionality of CC #35:


    #35

    Freeze in all delay and reverb effects (any value toggles between on and off)





    Store the Rig with Freeze = disabled in DLY module with module "on" and Freeze = enabled in REV module with module "off".


    Now, when you send CC #35 it will engage Freeze in DLY module and at the same time disengage Freeze in REV module. If you then activate the REV module you can play the frozen delay into the receptive reverb.

    Thanks Burkhard! I have been trying to figure this out for ages, so I'll give this a try. On that note, I must say that prior to OS 6, or what ever came after 5.7.2.14219, everything was working fine and it was working with the new delays and reverbs. I believe OS 6 had an even newer reverb and that's what I wanted to try out when I noticed the old functionality wasn't there anymore. I'm guessing it's because something was applied to all the reverbs that changed the settings?


    In any case, I'll try your suggestion and let you know how it works out.

    I have explained this at several occasions. Please accept the following:


    5.7 introduced the new reverb types with Freeze. The older reverb types don't offer Freeze. Therefor these older reverb types don't have the "issue" you describe. Good news is, you are free to still use the older reverb types. Nothing got lost.


    At the beginning of the new reverb types, there was a bug: CC#35 didn't trigger Freeze as should in the new reverb types. There was no way to control Freeze in those reverb types via MIDI CC. This was obviously unintended and got fixed in OS 5.7.4. From the changelog:


    fixed: MIDI CC# 35 didn't control Freeze of all delay and reverb effects of Rig


    The number range of MIDI control changes is too small to introduce a number for each Action&Freeze comand by module. This is not a PROFILER but a MIDI limitation. The extended MIDI NRPN offers a larger number range and what you request is already there. The following NRPN code switches Freeze for the DLY module individually:


    System / Global (Address Page 125)
    .....
    114 Stomp DLY Hold

    Bottom line: you have various options to support your intended functionality:

    - either use the older reverb types for this specific application

    - send NRPN to control Freeze of the DLY or other modules individually (this depends on the capabilities of your MIDI controller)

    - store the Rig with Freeze in the REV module activated, so that it deactivates, when you activate Freeze in the DLY module

    - use a PROFILER Remote

    Thanks Burkhard, I remember you saying something like this in another post I responded to. Thanks again for explaining again... I think why I was led to ask the question (again?) was because I was using the new reverbs before the previously stated OS version, which was 5.7.x. I was using Natural Reverb, which was already in existence. I believe an even newer reverb was introduced which may have fixed the freeze issue... but I'll tell you, I loved that bug haha. Sounds so glorious when you can do that.


    Ok, so I know the Remote can utilize that functionality based on your responses, but can the Kemper Stage also take advantage of that functionality too, or is it not NRPN capable? I was thinking maybe it's time for an upgrade from my toaster... so this would be the perfect excuse to do so!