Unhappy with my Kemper so I went on a journey!

  • Hello all


    This is going to be a fairly long post but I am hoping that for those struggling with the quality of the Kemper or disenfranchised after a prolonged period of ownership or even feeling the draw for some tubey goodness it will aid in some way. It has been a frustrating, fun and almost extremely regrettable month of product testing and I thought I would share my story in the hope it helps somebody.


    Please be mindful that this is not a slight on Kemper, any individual or product provider but is my personal experience and nothing more.


    Background


    I have owned the powered rack version of the Kemper since October 2017 and I have used this at least 3 times a week since purchase. It was to be used in my home studio and live replacing my Marshall JVM410h which, whilst a fantastic amp, was heating the room to almost tropical temperatures and back breaking when trying to negotiate stairs.


    Additional to this I have owned modelers for most of my guitar playing days. I was never a tube snob or even a tube owner, that was until I bought my first tube amp almost 15 years into playing. I am familiar with modelers from all manufactures apart from the Axe as during researching the latest and greatest the Axe forum was littered with arrogance individuals, bullying and 1984 style post editing so I was not at all interested. With something as complex as a modeler you need a good community around you and coming from the JVM forums that is what I am used too.


    Plugging in for the first time


    I remember pulling the trigger on a powered Kemper, foot pedal and DXR10, nearly £3000 of equipment. I was nervous it would be another Line6 or Boss “this is amazing” moment to only find the honeymoon period left as quickly as it began. It arrived, plugged it in and the JVM quickly became a part of my amp history especially when I first took the Kemper to rehearsal, the weight difference was huge and the lack of feedback and control over my sound was just outstanding.


    How I use the Kemper


    In the studio I reamp a lot of my guitars to allow me to get ideas down quickly, keep the inspiration and edit my guitar parts later to tighten up the performance. I use a host of Choptones and Deadlight profiles when recording and mainly Marshall profiles.


    Live and in rehearsal I ran the Kemper through a 4x12 GT-75 loaded Marshall stack. I used Choptones JCM800ZW DI profiles exclusively live.


    Why are we here?


    Well I have loved my affair with the Kemper, about two or three months ago I started to become very unhappy with the product. Why you may ask? Well there are a few factors:

    • Due to the increased popularity of the Kemper over my 4 years of ownership I have noticed a LOT of new features and an almost “spoilt brat” attitude towards these requests. Some of these requests look to be taking the product down a road of complexity I did not want to be a part off, and the simplicity of the product was becoming an obsolete concept.
    • With that in mind I noticed a host of updates being produced that appear to be unfinished which in my mind was moving away from the old “you will get it when it works” to an almost pandering to the masses approach and releasing things too early. The Kemper is becoming like other products on the market, when you have an issue you have to scroll through a vast array of parameters attempting to find a solution, an hour passes and you have lost inspiration. I used to always say that if the Kemper sounds bad its you, and it always was, now that is not the case and I started to miss the simplicity of an amp.
    • The sound quality has changed and before anyone states that subjective, I do understand that is the case. So to ensure I wasn’t having a moment I reverted back to a few old recordings and as I have used the same profiles since I purchased the product it was easy to cross reference. After doing some cross comparison I found the profiles I used 4 years ago had more body, the same profiles in the current software version sounded fizzy and undefined when in a mix. I had to cut a host of frequencies to remove the underlying fizzy sound.
    • I never wanted to say anything too negative about the product as most is subjective, but I am going to have to point out one area that is truly dreadful in my experience. Rig Manager has to be the most unintuitive and buggy software controller I have every experienced. Hark back to the days before the editor section was added this thing was stable, never crashed and was the center of my recording world. Come to today with its built-in editor and the slew of updates that appear and it loses communication every x amount of changes, constantly warns of corrupt profiles, does not save performances so you loss your work and has absolutely no intuitive folder management features (cant drag a folder to a new location etc.). Multiple factory resets later and it just continues to happen again and again.




    I understand that this is not the same experience for everyone but I came to the conclusion that the product is no longer suited to my personal needs and been developed to a point it is more of a distraction than anything else.


    So what’s the new world?


    After posing some questions on the forum and through some research I decided to satisfy my curiosity. I own a Marshall Silver Jubilee so I purchased a Torpedo Reload which would allow me to crank the Marshall and record at low volume. This would be used in conjunction with the Wall of Sound IR product from Two Notes for speaker emulation.


    How did this compare to the Kemper?


    Night and day! The sound was in your face, raw and more than anything I could feel the bounce from the strings and that tube amp\player relationship that I could never get from the Kemper. This was such a positive experience that I purchased a JVM too and started to record with that and WOW that was an experience. I started my search for an AFD100 and a JCM800 2203.


    Then I noticed something I had not considered. Where the hell in my small studio can I store all these amps, I had cables all over the room, the heat increased, and the mess was awful with pedals under my feet. Not really considered how much the Kemper kept my space tidy……but its about sound quality not aesthetics I told myself.


    Hello eBay!


    So I had two weeks to decide if I wanted to keep the Reload, after 7 days I put my Kemper on eBay and set myself up in the new yet old world of recording. I was so committed it was out of my rack and in its original box ready to be shipped.


    I spent the next few days getting my studio set up and tailoring my sounds with my new amps. I decided as I was 13 days into a 14 day return policy of the Reload I would test again to ensure I wasn’t making a mistake.


    Is the new\old world that good?


    Before the return period expired I record sections of a new song with the Silver Jubilee, JVM and then the Kemper and I was still adamant that there was such a tone difference that I had made the right decision. The JVM and Jubilee required zero EQ to sit in the outside of a LPF but the Kemper just needed so much EQ work to make space and remove the fizz. Then in the back of my mind I remember reading a lot about how people did not like MBritt profilers but the people defending said they are better at volume and for recording as that’s when they come alive.


    Taking the advice of people with more experience than myself I loaded up every MBritt Marshall profile and completed a recording, leveled them out and bam! It was still terrible, no definition, too much bass and not cutting through the mix but not fizzy (this is personal taste and not a slight on Michaels good work). Now there is one thing I personally love about MBritt profiles that I feel sets him apart from other profilers and that is the lack of boost pedals in his profiles. His amp profiles sound like an amp, react like an amp and a host of other profilers seem to think the more gain added, the more boosting they put in front the more it will sound great but to me the more you boost the less of the actual amp I am hearing.


    So whilst I was disappointed I was not defeated so I cracked open my OwnHammer IRs, added my trusty Marshall 4x12 to MBritts JCM800 and Silver Jubilee profiles and the thing sprung to life. Next to the JVM recordings it sounded fuller, less cutting through the mix but the difference in sound was more personal preference than quality. The more I recorded the more I really liked the MBritt profiles.

  • Hello eBay!


    So after much testing I was unfortunately back on eBay again….removing Kemper and adding my Marshall JVM. Why you may ask? Well the clutter was an issue, the heating of the room from the tubes was an issue but more than anything, the MBritt profiles sounded awesome enough to tell me that what I have now isn’t a bad sound but subjective sound.


    My JVM was purchased last night and is due for collection tomorrow. I have RMA’d the Torpedo ready for return.


    The pedals I purchased I am keeping as I wanted them anyway.


    WOAW WOAH WOAH Stop!


    Now I had sold my JVM after I purchased a Kemper, now I own a JVM and Reload and I am selling my Kemper, then I am selling my JVM and Reload and keeping my Kemper…..am I missing a trick?


    Now there are also some other very wise words on this very forum “profile your own amp” so before I have to return the Reload I sat up until 2am last night profiling the JVM. There I am creating a DI profile of every channel and mode from gain 1 up to gain 10, over 100 profiles of the JVM. At this stage I will say I have never profiled an amp and I was impressed that each profile took a maximum of 5 minutes including renaming and changing settings and if you are scared of profiling just bloody do it, it’s so easy.


    I selected a clean preset, loaded up the WoS plugin with the Slash 4x12 Marshall IR and holy crap the Gods were right, it sounded phenomenal! I go from mode to mode from switch to switch up through the gain stages and I cannot believe my ears……it just sounds like the JVM, the same response, the same feel and more so I can actually hear the gain in the amp better from the profile and it cuts through a mix beautifully even when layered 4 or 5 times…..and for the love of God the room is at a nice reasonably temperature.


    So my JVM is now sold (after profiling I immediately accepted his offer), the Reload I am keeping as a friend with an AFD100 is coming around at some point for me to profile his amp and my floor is clear of clutter. I am now looking to purchase a host of amps to profile that I have always wanted to own (Mesas, Friedman etc).


    I will say I am nervous still about the direction of Kemper regarding making this beautiful product too complex with too many features. I know this is also a personal perspective, but I don’t need 500 delays, 15 distortions, an eq in, before, between every effect, on the input, the output…its too complicated to troubleshoot. Yes, they are there if you want them and I don’t have to use them but it also creates other areas of coding that can have a negative affect on the parts that I use such as the editor which I never use making Rig Manager, which I do use, unstable.


    I would love to see the day a smaller form factor or a 1u rack is released that is only the amp section with great connectivity. I feel there are people who want a great sounding amp and people who want the world on a plate……..I am the former.



    Hope that was helpful in some way.

  • Can you upload the a/b comparisons with the rig and the exact software versions you are using?


    If you were happy 4 years ago, why did you update and did not stay with the old software version or revert to it?

  • Can you upload the a/b comparisons with the rig and the exact software versions you are using?


    If you were happy 4 years ago, why did you update and did not stay with the old software version or revert to it?

    Hi


    A lot of the updates I applied where for things like additional SPDIF capabilities, addition of the editor, which I actually thought I would use, which required a different version, the acoustic simulator which needed 7.5 which I wanted to test out.


    I have looked to revert back but just not gotten around to it yet as I was about to sell it.


    Mike

  • I'm still on version 6. But I'm interested in the question: Isn't everything so unstable in new releases?

    Garik


    I can only speak from my expereince but stability between Rig Manager and Kemper has become unreliable since the editor was introduced. The Kemper itself is stable I would say but last night when profiling it would randomly add the Crunch Cabinet so I would have to redo these profiles and it's this type of thing that spoils the flow.


    If you look at the acoustic simulator as an example when released it just wasn't at the right level. It should have worked out of the box but, and this is just my opinion, the "we want it now" attitude I feel is forcing early release.


    I wouldn't be put off by the product as you can revert back to an earlier release but I would be loathed to hold onto a product that is tested extensively in the field.


    Regards


    Mike

  • I haven’t heard any difference in the sound of Kemper OS versions for a very long time (since the aliasing fix update a year or so after it originally came out), but people leave the space and pure cab settings on. You can roll back to older versions of the OS to check, but otherwise just disable those two and it should sound as it always did.

  • Very interesting and thanks for sharing your journey.


    It took me 18 months to be truly happy with my sound. I do hold to your previous adage, if I sound crap its not the KPA...its how I've set it up ( or more likely my playing!).


    I also sometimes think there is the "rose tinted" effect. Like you, I've gone back to valve amps (in rehearsal) and found that those amps I used to like and now don't like them.


    I've also had a similar journey with different valve amps and I'm convinced my ears change :).


    Couple of comments:

    • Not sure I agree with the complexity...the changes are under the bonnet, so you only have to use them if you want. The previous workflow is virtually the same. The only difference is the addition of more delays and reverbs etc. This upgrade was definitely better and you can trim stuff if you need. This is one thing I still love about the KPA, if you don;t want to tweak, you don't have to.
    • Stability - In my view, this is just the editor. There was such a push for this and I know they have had problems. Its OK but connectivity remains the challenge. I have always seen the editor as a useful addition but I know its essential for studio users and definitely remains the weaker point. I've never had issues with the profiler software. I even downloaded the Beta for the acoustic SIM and it was fine.
    • I've never noticed a degrade in sound between versions so that's a surprise to me. Occasionally I've found some parameter changes that have affected the sound but no degrade that I've noticed.
    • Whether we like it or not, convenience is always a factor. Would I prefer to lug 5 amps to each gig or take a KPA that gets me 90% there? KPA every time.
    • Most Valve amps only have a few different sounds ( lots of variation on a theme but generally a Marshall sounds like a Marshall). For me it takes time to get used to a sound. So having all these other amps to choose from in the KPA, I get lost very easily...lost not in navigation but in what I even like! I call it rig blindness. Hence for me adding IR's and other variables just makes it worse.

    So glad you have made progress and probably frustrating its taken so long.

  • I haven’t heard any difference in the sound of Kemper OS versions for a very long time (since the aliasing fix update a year or so after it originally came out), but people leave the space and pure cab settings on. You can roll back to older versions of the OS to check, but otherwise just disable those two and it should sound as it always did.

    Per


    It could just be subjective but to me there is a difference. I can roll back I totally agree but then what happens with support. If you are on version 6 with an issue and this is fixed in version 7 I would imagine that support would advise the upgrade.


    Cheers for the advise bud

  • V8


    I do agree the amount of times I have cursed this unit and I have had an eq on, compressor or noise gate on in Cubase or I have recabled and the issue was my fault I would say is about 99% of the time lol..


    Those rose tinted glasses are a pain in the backside, I seem to need them more and more. Not now though these JVM profiles tick the box for me.


    I suppose the complexity is subjective. I went from an amp that was pretty east to manage to the Kemper. I am technically minded so I took really well to the Kemper without any issue and there seemed to be only a few areas of a sound was bad that you needed to alter. Then as new things appeared it just seemed to become core convoluted. I am not saying beyond my abilities but I am an easily distracted and I hate anything that draws my attention away from what I am doing.


    Stbilty wise I also agree with you. If Rig Manager could just stop losing its connectivity I would be happy.


    In regard to degrade maybe the correct term I should have used was different. There is a difference but maybe its just me and my ears have changed.


    5 amps, sod that carrying the JVM was why I started looking at the Kemper lol. When it turned up last week I laughed as my silver jubilee is the 2525h version so the 20watt tube amp. Pick it up with 1 finger, the JVM is just about managable with 2!


    In regard to all the amps on the Kemper I couldn't agree more. Analysis paralysis is what I call it. That's why I put only the profiles I use on the Kemper and the rest I keep away from my PC so I don't get drawn into swapping amps.


    Cheers mate, I actually don't mind the whole process satisfied my curiosity and led me to profile my amp so no regrets here.


    Mike

  • Hi e1614e36a3b051571d61cb8fdc50c4becad982a2 , have you tried disabling Pure Cabinet and the Space settings? Space and especially Pure Cabinet change the tone of profiles pretty drastically and Pure Cabinet was enabled globally on the Kemper after the update that implemented it. You said something about the profiles you use sounding "fizzy" or something, and Pure Cabinet can be having a huge hand in that.


    I noticed another user mentioned the Space and Pure Cabinet parameters but I think it might have gotten overlooked because you were responding to another part of their post. But disabling Space and especially Pure Cabinet, might get you back to those original tones because it's the only thing that has ever been added during an update that affected the sound of profiles. And after the update when it was added into the Kemper, I think it was automatically engaged globally. So I'd highly recommend checking those parameters out.


    Just a thought and I hope it helps! :)


    Thanks for posting your story! Super interesting and it's funny how things work out in life. I've always thought that the cabs/Impulse Responses you use are one of the biggest factors in your tone and can make a huge impact. It's cool to hear how just adding some new IRs on profiles brought new life into them^^

  • I suppose the complexity is subjective. I went from an amp that was pretty east to manage to the Kemper. I am technically minded so I took really well to the Kemper without any issue and there seemed to be only a few areas of a sound was bad that you needed to alter. Then as new things appeared it just seemed to become core convoluted. I am not saying beyond my abilities but I am an easily distracted and I hate anything that draws my attention away from what I am doing.

    Yeah, totally agree.


    Like you Im technically minded but I've always treated the KPA like a multi channel amp with built in effects. The big issue for me is its not navigating the KPA but its more that I don't know how to reproduce the sound in my head. In other words, I know what i don't like but not necessarily what I do like - hence I need instant gratification else I get drawn into analysis paralysis myself.


    Great insights dude!

  • Just wondering, and I'm sorry if I have missed this in your replies, but have you profiled your previous analog rig(s) yourself? Because that is where the KPA really shines imo. I never was that impressed with the stock profiles and I personally (almost) always use profiles I made of my own amps with my settings, my own cabinets, my own preamps, my own microphone(s) etc.


    Before the KPA I recorded analog amps on a daily basis in my studio so setting things up was fairly easy. I tried to get the sound exactly the way I wanted it to sound by extensive monitoring and A/Bing without having to do any adjustments on the KPA afterwards. I have always been very happy with the results and for recording I haven't used the analog rig in a long time. Just the fact that I can take all my amp tones to recording situations and gigs is just amazing.


    Having said that, I must say that I usually bring (part of) my analog rig to gigs because I like to feel a speaker working next to me. My skin seems to have ears as well. I haven't tried the Kabinet yet but I imagine it's a similar experience. If logistics are very poor or if it's a really short set I breng the KPA. So different tools for different situations, I don't think there will ever be a single tool that will work every time.


    Cheers!

  • Just wondering, and I'm sorry if I have missed this in your replies, but have you profiled your previous analog rig(s) yourself?


    Having said that, I must say that I usually bring (part of) my analog rig to gigs because I like to feel a speaker working next to me. My skin seems to have ears as well. I haven't tried the Kabinet yet but I imagine it's a similar experience. If logistics are very poor or if it's a really short set I breng the KPA. So different tools for different situations, I don't think there will ever be a single tool that will work every time.


    Cheers!

    That was the point, he got his sound by profiling his rigs...


    I have also found that the KPA has made me think differently...that I don;t need to feel my sound on stage, hence I don;t need any analogue stuff, because it took the KPA to make me realise that the most important "consumer" of my sound is not me or even the band, but the audience. Hence my focus is FOH now and monitoring is just for that - monitoring.

  • Before the KPA I recorded analog amps on a daily basis in my studio so setting things up was fairly easy.

    That's a big advantage and gives you the ability to shape the sound for the profiling process way more than I could do it with semi-deep knowledge and experience in recording. So my profiles are okay and I do experiment from time to time. But finally the Kemper - and that is one of the key reasons I bought it - opens a up a big space of profiles which recreate amps that I would never get in my hands, mostly for commercial and amount reasons.


    As I can not compare them to the actual physical amp I don't really know the differences of profiles vs. amp and end up in the key question: Do I like it and does it work for me or not?


    Similar to V8guitar I do not care super much about the amp-in-the-room effect and rather watch out for FOH first. And meanwhile I think there are so many solutions incl. the Kabinet for those who really need that skin-type hearing (which is nice, no doubt!) more than I do...

  • Generally, if anybody believes an old software version sounds differently, please open a support ticket.


    We can send you the old revision and will ask you to perform reampings with the same track, the same Rig and identical settings under the old and the current OS versions. You can then compare the reamped recordings. And if you should find sound differences, send us those two recordings plus PROFILER backups of both reamping scenarios. We can then investigate and provide an explanation:

    different settings e.g. Pure Cabinet

    perhaps something locked in one scenario and not in the other

    ...


    Only that way we can have a fact based assessment.