I had checked that out a while back but it seemed reviews where hit and miss plus my headphones where not on the list but the most recent purchased ones may be.
You know down that rabbit hole is just another rabbit hole.
Studio Monitors
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I bought a pair of used Yamaha HS80-Ms a few years back. Predecessor to the new ones. Extremely happy with them, and of course the venerable DXR10.
Good stuff.
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https://www.kaliaudio.com/lone-pine-studio-monitors
Kali lp-6s, for around 300 euro a pair, high bang for buck speakers! Have 2 in my home studio, they are great!
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Got Mackie HR824s with 8" woofers and similar footprint as Yamahas. And I found them to be too big, both physically and sound stage wise, in the small-to-mid sized home studio environment that is not finetuned and treated acoustically well enough.
When changed to another room, even somewhat bigger and treating it more, changed to KH120s and they fit the bill way better for me.
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The trick for me at least is if they're big, don't run 'em too-loud.
Running 'em "softly", as I said earlier, takes the room out of the equation and thankfully this works for bass-buildup too.
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try a new approach
Can't be wrong I'd say. Despite the fact there are definitely a lot of (well known / accepted / very helpful) best practices when it comes to recording, mixing and mastering I personally think that there is sometimes too much docma around things. Looking at some of the best sounding recordings in the past decades there are a lot of stories with rather surprising approaches behind these.
So from a creative point of view I'd definitely say it's worth trying. Also remember that one of those recording blog guys, Graham Cochrane, did a nice series/video on mixing with headphones. So many approaches which are worth trying...
P.S.: I'm overall happy with my Adams as said above but often I use the headphones during the mixing process to have different impression of the mix and especially before the mixing starts for editing purposes.
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With that in mind I have decided for a few weeks to embrace my new found scepticism and try a new approach. I will mix in mono on my working speaker and use Waves Nx with my headphones to do stereo mixing and recording.
As I suggested earlier, Mike, Waves Nx is an alternative to speakers only because it simulates speakers in a room.
The headphone, earbud and pseudo-stereo bluetooth (psychoacoustic trickery) methods of listening Joe Sixpack uses still rely on the source material's being mixed "conventionally" as a baseline. If you mixed on headphones sans Nx, you'd be compromising the end result to greater and lesser extents for listeners across the spectrum depending upon which methods they're using to listen.
Radio stations, TV, film, car stereos and indeed domestic hi-fi systems would reveal the strange panning arrangements, for example, that would result if monitoring on headphones as opposed to Nx or real speakers.
IOW IMHO the desirability for mixing monitoring could be ranked as follows:
1) Speakers
2) Speaker simulation
3) Headphones
Am I mad?
No mate. Budget and practicality concerns could certainly be used to justify a speaker-sim-in-headphones approach IMHO. I just wanted to drive home the point that headphones alone, sans-sim, will result in a laterally-compressed stereo image when played back on speakers and likely an undesirable bass response.
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So from a creative point of view I'd definitely say it's worth trying. Also remember that one of those recording blog guys, Graham Cochrane, did a nice series/video on mixing with headphones. So many approaches which are worth trying...
Thanks for the tip mate, I'll give them a watch.
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As I suggested earlier, Mike, Waves Nx is an alternative to speakers only because it simulates speakers in a room.
The headphone, earbud and pseudo-stereo bluetooth (psychoacoustic trickery) methods of listening Joe Sixpack uses still rely on the source material's being mixed "conventionally" as a baseline. If you mixed on headphones sans Nx, you'd be compromising the end result to greater and lesser extents for listeners across the spectrum depending upon which methods they're using to listen.
Radio stations, TV, film, car stereos and indeed domestic hi-fi systems would reveal the strange panning arrangements, for example, that would result if monitoring on headphones as opposed to Nx or real speakers.
IOW IMHO the desirability for mixing monitoring could be ranked as follows:
1) Speakers
2) Speaker simulation
3) Headphones
No mate. Budget and practicality concerns could certainly be used to justify a speaker-sim-in-headphones approach IMHO. I just wanted to drive home the point that headphones alone, sans-sim, will result in a laterally-compressed stereo image when played back on speakers and likely an undesirable bass response.
Yeah I tried NX before but as I had a bigger better room it wasn't the solution but I have tested it, albeit without the tracking, and it works really well. I have now purchased NX as its £28 so nothing will be lost as it could even be just another reference environment. I wanted to check out Abbey Road Studio 3 but it wouldn't even download.
I was also starting to mix in mono a while back and found it very appealing as it was much easier to hear how guitar parts work together, frequency issues and polarity issues.
Regarding conventional translation to other medium I agree for those able and in great environments to do it the traditional way, certainly not mocking it. Using my own analogy the Kemper is great, it does not feel 100% like a tube amp and like having a good room with great monitors headphone will never have that feel to it.
I will probably end up with monitors, NX and Headphone just so I have options. I also, and as a few have said, agree that knowing your equipment is vital. Before I worked my arse off to get paid what I do now I used to mix on a pair of eltax floor standing speakers and a Cambridge A1 amplifier. My friend had a small studio and was always asking how I got the drums to sound big, why the guitars sounded so big. He expected as he had the gear that was taken care off, I knew I didn't so I compensated for that.
Has anyone used Abbey Road Studio 3 with headphones? If so how do you feel it worked for you. I managed to buy and get NX working but Abbey Road kept asking me to contact support.
Cheers all and this is very interesting to read through.
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I’ve had my HS8’s for a couple years now, and they’ve been outstanding. Even if/when I upgrade; these will be hooked up as my secondary reference monitors. You won’t be disappointed.
I’m currently a few weeks into a 90 day trial of Abbey Road Studio 3. It’s a cool thing to pop on for a minute to get perspective, as the near, mid, and far field monitors show different details in the mix; but I still strongly prefer working on my monitors, and switching to my Beyerdynamic DT770’s (without ARS3) when I feel like working late.
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Yeah I tried NX before but as I had a bigger better room it wasn't the solution but I have tested it, albeit without the tracking, and it works really well.
IMHO the tracking thing is a bit of a gimmick 'cause the only mix that really matters is the one you make in the sweet spot. Who cares whether or not the perspective and responses change when you reach over to your rack or whatever? We're used to using headphones and they've never done it.
I'd actually argue that if you're tweaking something off to one side, you're better-off hearing the ongoing results from a proper mix perspective anyway, something you can't do with conventional monitoring but that Nx will allow... without the tracking.
Lastly, I'm sensitive to transmissions and although I'm only a canary in a coal mine, one less source of RF close to the head can't be a bad thing for the average person IMHO.
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All I see are people listening in headphones, earbuds and single speaker systems with built in Bluetooth where the stereo image is already modified to suit the purpose of the listening device.
A couple of years back I got custom IEMs from Ultimate Ears, primarily for a band thing. I got the ones around the $600 range, can't remember exactly. I asked the reps (who are actually nice, down to earth folks) if there was really any benefit to the more expensive ones and they told me the differences were subtle at best. Fast forward to no band and being a studio rat...
When I'm in the live room tracking acoustic guitar, I just use my IEMs. Turns out they sound great for studio stuff. I then took them into the vocal booth and found that I no longer got headphone bleed into the vocal track (Fostex headphones are great but most cans leak a bit).
I have Mackie HR824s, and do mix with them, as much as anything because I enjoy being able feel the air move. However, I now routinely plug my IEMs into my iPhone and test the mix that way as well. I don't use the Waves or any other such plugin for that as I just want the truth. Since there's no room for the IEMs to interact with, there's no need.
You can certainly use generic earbuds from your phone, or even the generic sort that you get with an IEM transmitter / receiver, but the first time you plug in custom molds you'll wonder how you ever lived without them. If you've got around 600 to spend, that puts you right in the ball park. Ultimate Ears isn't the only provider of custom molds, they're just the only ones I have experience with. I've also heard good things about Westone.
As long as you're thinking outside the box, it's another option to consider.
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So far I have also tried out the NX software and to be honest it sounds the same on and off with my Sennheiser HD650s set to HD600. Maybe a little top end but that's about it so I can gladly remove that from my chain.
What about the panning, Mike?
That's the "main" difference between h'phones and monitors IMHO, apart from the ambient reflections.
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Do you find the custom molds consistent in how they deliver music when you sing? As in you open your mouth, your ear position changes but it still retains the same clarity of music.
Absolute consistency, perfect fit, zero hassles. I'd been through a couple of rounds of generic Shure earbuds that came with the transmitters and it's not even remotely the same experience. I've had them for a couple of years now and am still wildly enthusiastic about them.
When you put in custom molds (at least the UEs), they're designed with a little ridge on the outside to make it easy to manipulate. You place them in the ear and then rotate slightly. Due to the shape of your ear canal, they just slide into place and then lock there. More comfortable than generics because I'm not constantly worrying about them falling out or, as you pointed out, the position shifting and thus the sound changing every time I move my jaw. Your IEMs won't fit anyone but you, and they'll fit you like a glove. No matter what you do with your jaw, they don't budge so the song remains the same.
The audio quality is excellent. It sounds more like a studio monitor than a hyped home stereo (or some of the bass heavy earbuds and headphones out there).
When I got mine, you still had to go to an audiologist to get your ear molds made, then send them in with your order. However, I've read that UE now has a kit that lets you do that at home, which is pretty cool.
