Spent more time with my Stage + power amp + 2x12 v30 cab...

  • ...and wouldn't you know, pretty much all the merged and direct high gain profiles I tried sounded the same. I guess I got a lesson in how much of a difference the cab makes in the overall sound.


    And yes, I was running cab monitor off. :)


    Looks like I'll be looking at some FRFR options after all.

  • Very true. I'm running a kemper through a 4x12 ENGL with V60s and lots of high gain profiles do sound very similar. Cabinets definitely play a huge role in your overall tone. A FRFR will surely provide you much more tonal versatility with all the possible cabs and mics combinations. For me, they are equally great, it's more a matter of what I want on that particular day.

  • I decided to stop with the FRFR journey ... My thought was why would you mimic a mic'ed speaker while you could get the right sound from the real stuff. Instant amp in the room sound and the FOH gets the full rig incl IR's ... I did not see the point playing one song with V30's the other with greenbacks! the crowd couldn't care less and I myself like the raw amp sound better then a miced soud coming from the backline ... esp when the other bandmembers play with a full stack tube head ...


    Raf

  • ...and wouldn't you know, pretty much all the merged and direct high gain profiles I tried sounded the same. I guess I got a lesson in how much of a difference the cab makes in the overall sound.


    And yes, I was running cab monitor off. :)


    Looks like I'll be looking at some FRFR options after all.

    I've always been a believer of cabs being one of the biggest factors in the overall sound of your rig. It's always enlightening when first seeing how similar some amps sound through the same cab. I'm right there with you brother! Haha it blew my mind too.


    What FRFR's are you looking into at the moment? I know a lot of people love the Yamaha DXR10 (not sure exactly what it's called) and the Friedman FRFR's. I personally have a Headrush 112 and it sounds great as long as I dial in the low end accordingly :) its one of the cheaper options. But, I hear a lot about the Friedman FRFRs and supposedly they sound awesome and have a very "guitar cab" - like sound to them.

  • I just ordered a Laney FR-112. I had a Friedman ASC-12 for my Helix about a year ago, and I absolutely hated it. Only used it for one show before going with the traditional guitar cab approach. The Laney had good reviews, looks great, and isn't too expensive. I get it next week.

  • I can't wait to hear how it is! I hear great things about the Laney FRFRs as well. I didnt know those were some of more affordable options, that's awesome!

    Well, affordable compared to Matrix, Mission Engineering, and Friedman. 😆 I guess it's mid-range if you consider the PA speaker options like the Alto and Headrush.

  • Well, affordable compared to Matrix, Mission Engineering, and Friedman. 😆 I guess it's mid-range if you consider the PA speaker options like the Alto and Headrush.

    Yeah, the Mission Engineering and Friedman stuff is more on the premuim side of the market lol stuff is pricey! Even for just a 1x10 FRFR by friedman is as much as a Line 6 Powercab Plus!


    The Headrush and Alto stuff is definitely the budget options for sure lol if I could I might have gotten a mid range option instead but, times are tough lol :D

  • This is why the Kone is a game changer for me. Amp in the room with different speaker sounds. 😎

    The Kone is some amazing technology and I can't wait to try it. If only I could afford a Kemper Kab or even just a Kone to put in a cab. I only have a 4x12 and a 1x12 FRFR so I think I'd have to try to get a small 1x12 out 2x12 cabinet to put the cones in, or just get 4 of them and go all in for my 4x12 lol (Idk if I'm ready to mess with my beloved 4x12 Custom Diamond Cab loaded with 2 V30's and 2 G12H30's;)). But I definitely wanna try out the Kemper Kone!

  • I heavily considered getting a Kabinet, but I wanted something a little beefier, and also something I could use if I ever decide to get another modeler (cough Neural DSP Quad Cortex cough if it ever comes out). Hopefully I won't regret that decision.

  • I decided to stop with the FRFR journey ... My thought was why would you mimic a mic'ed speaker while you could get the right sound from the real stuff. Instant amp in the room sound and the FOH gets the full rig incl IR's ... I did not see the point playing one song with V30's the other with greenbacks! the crowd couldn't care less and I myself like the raw amp sound better then a miced soud coming from the backline ... esp when the other bandmembers play with a full stack tube head ...


    Raf

    I found the opposite.

    Why would I go to the bother of running a real cab and the hassle of miking it etc. That for me is the whole point of the KPA - plug and play. If you run a cab but don;t mike it, then you have a significant difference in the sound you hear and the audience.


    Its not about changing cabs, its about a consistent FOH sound although cabs/speakers have a big affect on sound, so why not have that option.


    I always thought the audience heard what I heard...they don't, they hear my cab through a mike and then through a PA. For me, FRFR gives me closer to what the audience hears ( which I think is the most important) rather than a different sound.


    Every Guitarist loves that Amp in the room sound that makes your chest thump and trousers flap, but its not what the audience hears, hence I made a change in mindset. My backline sound is secondary to my FOH. Doesn't mean its bad, it just means that's where my emphasis lies..


    Similar principle with IEM's but that is a step I find harder to over come :)

  • This is some really great insight V8guitar ! :)


    Focusing on the tones that the audience hears, ensures the audience gets the best representation of your sound. I think that aspect is really important as well, and it's another thing the Kemper excels at and it makes a lot of sense to utilize that. Kemper allows for consistency that wasn't easily attainable before. So, why not take advantage of one of the Kemper's strengths?


    And pointing out that both backline and FOH both get focused on, but FOH gets your primary focus, was a great way to explain the importance of both while still emphasizing FOH to ensure getting the best sound for your audience :)


    Cos you're right, I love the amp in the room sound as much as every other guitarist. But I can agree that the sound that the audience hears is the most important when playing live. Your backline can sound great but if that doesn't carry to FOH and the audience, and FOH sounds bad, then what the audience hears is going to be sh*t and that can/will ruin the percieved performance.


    V8guitar has shined a light on some important concepts to consider:)

  • You can do both. Assuming you have access to a rehearsal room and a PA system, start by getting some rigs together with virtual cabs that are similar to your real cab. Next, tweak your tone to sound good on the PA. Once you're close, start A/B'ing the PA with your real cab, and use the monitor EQ or power amp EQ to fine tune the sound coming out of your cab. Doesn't have to be perfect, but you're aiming for a sound you're happy with out of both. The real cab is used just for you on stage to have that real amp feel, and the FOH gets the virtual cab signal. Everyone wins. I played several shows with this setup when I had a Helix (and bands still played live😭).

  • You can do both. Assuming you have access to a rehearsal room and a PA system, start by getting some rigs together with virtual cabs that are similar to your real cab. Next, tweak your tone to sound good on the PA. Once you're close, start A/B'ing the PA with your real cab, and use the monitor EQ or power amp EQ to fine tune the sound coming out of your cab. Doesn't have to be perfect, but you're aiming for a sound you're happy with out of both. The real cab is used just for you on stage to have that real amp feel, and the FOH gets the virtual cab signal. Everyone wins. I played several shows with this setup when I had a Helix (and bands still played live😭).

    I totally agree. That's the best type of setup for real cab feel and FOH gets a more consistent tone than mic'ing up that real cab. I think one of the best features of the Kemper is the ability to go FOH and have a real cab for stage sound.


    I was talking about was someone utilizing that instead of just using a real cab and mic'ing it up. I was commenting on the aspect of utilizing the ability to go FOH. I probably should have said that for more context haha. My bad, I should have elaborated on the setup I was referring to for the backline. My post was more focused on the FOH aspect and people trying to mic' up a real cab instead of just going FOH. The FRFR aspect is up to the user and I could go either way lol:)


    The insight given in the post I was replying to seemed to be quite enlightening as far as pointing out the fact that what the audience hears is extremely important. I think people should consider that when putting together their setup, whether that be FRFR and FOH, or FOH and real cab, or real cab mic'd up. That's all I was saying my friend :)

    But I actually agree with you as well. Using a real cab and still going FOH is the best of both worlds.

  • Your making me blush :)

  • You can do both. Assuming you have access to a rehearsal room and a PA system, start by getting some rigs together with virtual cabs that are similar to your real cab. Next, tweak your tone to sound good on the PA. Once you're close, start A/B'ing the PA with your real cab, and use the monitor EQ or power amp EQ to fine tune the sound coming out of your cab. Doesn't have to be perfect, but you're aiming for a sound you're happy with out of both. The real cab is used just for you on stage to have that real amp feel, and the FOH gets the virtual cab signal. Everyone wins. I played several shows with this setup when I had a Helix (and bands still played live😭).


    I think FRFR gets you closer in one step but for many people you lose something. I also don't think a guitar cab fills all the perceived gaps. In other words it really depends on how far you want to go and the Kone/Kabinet starts to address these.


    For me as long as I have a good sound on stage, my efforts have been more on FOH but to be clear, I'm happy with my on stage sound as well.


    Great insight though and its fab that the KPA gives all of these options!