Best Ways to Boost High Gain tones?

  • Hi everyone,


    A recent discussion I had with a friend sparked some questions regarding effectiveness of different methods for tightening up high gain amps/profiles.


    The discussion was about the best way to get a high gain signal/high gain amp/high gain profile tight.


    In this situation I'm talking about using an OD to Boost a high gain amp and tighten it up. Not about Boosting a slightly overdrive amp into high gain. I'm talking about Boosting an already high gain/close to fully saturated signal into full on tight saturation that has attack and clarity without too much compression(which will cause the bottom end to blow out and sound flubby).


    Do you use the method of high Level and low Drive when boosting a profile/amp to tighten it up? Would you say that using a Tubescreamer or other low end cutting OD with low Drive and high Level works best for this application?


    Or do you use the opposite sort of method and use high Drive and low Level when boosting a high gain amp/profile to tighten it up? Would you say that using an OD with mid to high Drive and low Level settings works best for this application?


    Does turning up the Level more than Drive, or vice versa, affect high gain profiles/amps in the same way? Or do the two different approaches affect high gain profiles/amps differently?


    What methods do you use to get tight and aggressive Modern Metal tones?


    I'd love to hear everyone's thoughts and opinions! :)

  • This might not be the answer you're looking for, but if I'm looking for a boosted high gain riff tone, I usually do 1 of 3 things.


    1. Simply turn up the gain. I'm not being pedantic here. A lot of my favorite high gain profiles keep their tightness when the gain goes up.

    2. Look for a profile that was recorded with a boost. ReampZone usually included boosted profiles in their metal amp packs.

    3. Adjust the Clarity and Definition controls. I discovered this recently, and messing with these usually give me the tightness I'm looking for.


    I tried the typical process of adding the Green Screen (Tubescreamer) in front with gain at 0 and volume at 9-10, but that just didn't have the same affect as it does with other modelers (Helix, Fractal, Neural DSP in my experience). Maybe because Kemper isn't actually a modeler. ?‍♂️

  • Here's a similar thread where I responded and attached some of the stock profiles that I've tweaked to be tight. Not sure how djenty you're after - my patches might be a little mid-heavy for super djenty 7-8 string brootal riffz, but maybe it'll help.


    Advice dialing in metal tones, understanding parameters?


    I actually recorded some quick scratch tracks with Neural DSP Omega Granophyre last night after strictly using my Kemper for the last few months, and the first thing I thought was "damn, this plugin sounds loose and flubby." ?

  • Thanks for sharing your process :thumbup:


    That Tubescreamer method comes from the analog Tubescreamers and real high gain amps. I don't think it's exclusively something that modelers excel at but, that's just my opinion.


    I use a combination of proper gain staging, tweaking Definition and Clarity, and using an OD with high Level and low Drive and I find it typically works pretty well. For me, I can't get out tight enough just pushing the profiles gain without having to cut a ton of low end. By pushing the ODs Level it utilizes the Tubescreamers EQ snd cuts low end and cleans up the signal being pushed without adding a ton of compression like adding Drive does. But of course, different strokes for different folks lol;)


    I was definitely looking for opinions and I appreciate you sharing your process! I lovw using ReampZone Boosted profiles as well! My post was also aimed at the discussion of either adding higher Level or higher Drive from an OD when boosting, which method gets the best results for tightening up high gain, and whether or not hight Drive or higher Level settings affect high gain differently. Do you have an opinion regarding that aspect specifically? I'm very eager to hear peoples opinions on that stuff as well :)

  • To tighten an amp for metal, forget about the gain. Turn it down to 0 and turn up level to anywhere from 12 to full. Depending on how much gain the profile already have of course. Tone from 12 to 3 o clock. That's it.

    Think for yourself, or others will think for you wihout thinking of you

    Henry David Thoreau

  • Oh, sorry. I misunderstood and thought you were looking for advice instead of discussion. Sorry for mansplaining!

    I don't like too much gain for my overall tone. In real life or on a modeler, it's 0 for drive, 5-7 for tone, and 10 for level. On the Kemper, the I usually set the level at 3.5 or so, and depending on the tightness of the profile, put the mix around 90%.

  • Oh, sorry. I misunderstood and thought you were looking for advice instead of discussion. Sorry for mansplaining!

    I don't like too much gain for my overall tone. In real life or on a modeler, it's 0 for drive, 5-7 for tone, and 10 for level. On the Kemper, the I usually set the level at 3.5 or so, and depending on the tightness of the profile, put the mix around 90%.

    No worries, my friend :)

    I was looking for a bit of both and your input is definitely appreciated ^^ From one guy to another, sometimes we can't help but "mansplain" lol, but I'm guilty of it as well! It comes from a good place of wanting to help so I totally get it.


    I do pretty much the same as you explained you do with Level and Mix on my Kemper as well when using the Green Scream 8o Great minds think alike!


    But also like you mentioned, I really like the ReampZone Boosted profiles too! It gives me some access to pedals I'll never have in real life lol 8) So Sick!

  • To tighten an amp for metal, forget about the gain. Turn it down to 0 and turn up level to anywhere from 12 to full. Depending on how much gain the profile already have of course. Tone from 12 to 3 o clock. That's it.

    This is a super solid method! I always thought this approach was sort of the standard for metal and high gain and then, my recent conversation with a buddy made me question wether or not it's a common way to tighten up high gain. So it's nice to see that others use this approach as well!


    Thanks for your input and for the reply :)

    I'm always glad to hear your perspective!

  • I used the mix at 65 percent give or take, and use more gain around 2 to 5.0 and the level a plus 1.5 or 3


    Mouse

    One DS

    Green scream

    Treble booster

    I've tried them all even the muff lol


    It really depends on how well the profile takes the boost. Cheers!

  • I honestly haven't given tried it the One DS as much! That might be something I need to revisit soon :)

    Always interesting to see everyone's unique approaches. Thanks for sharing! ^^

  • joshriggs aside from you and a few others posting, I'm surprised more people don't have opinions regarding this stuff! I always thought boosting high gain with an OD, and using low Drive and high Level was kind of a standard in modern metal. And then a recent conversation with a friend that's from a different musical background(this is a friend I jam with and he isn't a part of the forum unfortunately), led me to question whether or not it's actually commonly done.


    Their opinion included the thinking that using higher Drive than Level would tighten up high gain more than higher Level than Drive. And that there's not a reason to use more Level instead of Drive.


    Since my experience is the opposite, it sparked my interest in getting more opinions and perspectives from others to gain a better understanding of tightening up and properly boosting high gain tones. I know tone is subjective so I figured hearing people's opinions and experiences and thoughts might give me some insight into how differently high Level and high Drive truly affect the signal.


    It's just surprising and kind of a bummer that so few people posted in the thread. Of course, I'm glad you and a few others posted and it's nice to have another brother in Metal chiming in:) But I was hoping for some involvement from more of the metal and high gain using-Kemper Community. It makes me wonder... Should I post this in the Public section instead or something ? Lol :D Ahh I'm just venting my disappointment lol :D:DBut you don't let me down, my friend. And I appreciate your input!


    On another note, Congrats on getting your solo stuff out joshriggs! That's awesome and I'm definitely gonna be checking that out today :) Did you double track with one profile on each side? Or did you quad track and layer both on each side? Or were the different profiles used for different parts in the track? I'll bet a Diezel profile and Mesa profile sound beastly in a mix together!

  • Frankly, I don't think metal players make up a lot of Kemper users, like, say, Fractal. Which makes sense to me because where I think Kemper really kills the competition is in clean and edge-of-breakup tones.


    Thanks for the kind words! For this song, I quad tracked with the Diezel panned hard left and 75% left, and the Recto panned hard right and 75% right.

  • Frankly, I don't think metal players make up a lot of Kemper users, like, say, Fractal. Which makes sense to me because where I think Kemper really kills the competition is in clean and edge-of-breakup tones.


    Thanks for the kind words! For this song, I quad tracked with the Diezel panned hard left and 75% left, and the Recto panned hard right and 75% right.

    Yeah, there aren't as many Metal players that are very active on the Kemper forum compared to the rest of the genre rainbow lol. But, I see a lot of Metal players using Kempers so, it puzzles me man! Lol :D

    And I know there's a good handful of Metal Profile Makers out there making killer metal profiles too. I guess a lot of the metal players that use Kemper are more active on other forums or something. Who knows what's really up lol maybe it's just a slow week for the forum or something haha :D


    But on a more awesome note! :

    One amp per side with the quad tracks filling out the stereo spread like that sounds epic! I really dig the ambient tones in the track too. Sounds sick man:)

  • I don't use pedals at all. With regards to tightening up high gain, for me its simple....simple is best.


    Reduce the gain and effects, reduces the mushyness. If its still not right, I choose a different amp or add a touch of compression but that's it, combined with tight technique...

  • i’m not a metal player but I doo like a good hi gain tone from time to time. I never use OD or Boost pedals. I grew up on Mesa Boogies and used them from 1985 until I got the Kemper a few years back. I’ve always been an amp gain guy. The thing about Mesa’s (or more accurately Mark Series Amps) is that the tone stack comes before the distortion stages. This allows Mark Series to reduce the amount of Bass going into the gain stages and keep the tone tight while still being heavily driven.


    This is also what early heavy rock players were doing with the Treble Booster. It is a boost which rolls off a lot of bass and progressively adds drive to higher and higher frequencies. When pushed into a clean amp it sounds shit and piercing . When pushed int an already driven amp it created a tight bass and fat mid/high drive.


    Then people started using the TS (and similar style pedals) to add a mid hump and roll off a little bass. Again the concept was to change the frequencies going into the distortion stages of the amp rather than just add more gain/overdrive/distortion. That is why most people use the TS with low drive and high volume: they are using it to shape the tone not provide masses of extra gain.


    So, in conclusion, tight distortion is as much (probably more) about EQing the sound prior to the amp distortion gain stages as it is about adding more gain. Pedals like the TS provide a sort of in the box plug and play solution but there are other options. Try these:


    A) put an EQ FX in stomp D before the amp and play with cutting and boosting frequencies as well as the output leve.


    B) change the amp block EQ from post to pre and cut some bass while boosting some mids and possibly highs.

  • the Green Scream is the obvious way to 'tighten' a higain tone and it (TS) and the countless derivatives that circuit has spawned has been used for this for decades


    also, try the Treble Booster - it can be adjusted from being a pure boost to a quite agressive treble booster


    try increasing the Definition to instantly 'mod' the amp PROFILE


    build a custom EQ curve using one of the EQ stomps, put them before the AMPLIFIER and boost their level