[Public Beta] PROFILER OS 8.0.0.21450

  • following this 'logic', most of the parameters available in the AMPLIFIER slot would need to be removed as well.........


    .........Why impose the limitations of an analog device?

    I actually think Kemper have done a VERY smart thing by NOT including clones of multiple real pedals.

    No matter how many pedals you do include there will always be people who want another pedal and complain that Kemper don’t offer it.


    Even the pedals that are offered will differ from the real versions by at least as much as different examples of the same pedal differ due to electrical component tolerances. Therefore, there will always be people complaining that the xxxx pedal just doesn’t sound as good as the real thing and Kemper sucks. In many cases the people complaining on forums and Facebook have never actually played the real thing anyway and are simply quoting internet “facts”.


    If people want to have a unit with dozens, or even hundreds, of emulations of physical pedals the AxeFx and Helix already have this covered (and do it very well). If Kemper want to enter this market space they need to do it even better than the two established players. However, as no two real pedals sounding exactly the same and many people have never tried them anyway, it would be extremely difficult to beat Fractal and Line6 at their own game.


    Adding features just because the competition has them is a pretty stupid business model. Kemper has never been a “me too” company. Instead they appear to look for a problem and then seek a way to solve that problem efficiently. They don’t seem to care much about what other people are doing but rather focus on the “problem” itself.


    The Kemper Drive strikes me as an incredibly simple and elegant solution to the Overdrive Pedal “problem”. Adding separate stand along pedal models would seem unnecessary and a classic case of “me too” design be committee. In fact, I would compare it to software companies “bloatware” all it does is take up space with “features” no one ever uses and it slows down my computer for the privilege .

  • Also a lot of people would complain that "all the drives sound similiar..." and the discussion about how od pedals in general sound similarly would be even bigger than it already is.

  • Also a lot of people would complain that "all the drives sound similiar..." and the discussion about how od pedals in general sound similarly would be even bigger than it already is.

    This is most probably the main reason why the Kemper team has taken this general route and not a pedal specific route . :thumbup:

  • It’s a beta release though. This is the time for people to have opinions and ideas.

    Sometimes great things come out of suggestions made at this stage.

    At the end of the day CK will do what he things is right for his product but he is here listening and that’s a great thing.

  • It’s a beta release though. This is the time for people to have opinions and ideas.

    Sometimes great things come out of suggestions made at this stage.

    At the end of the day CK will do what he things is right for his product but he is here listening and that’s a great thing.

    absolutely.No doubt.Trying new things or let's say "being unusual" is the hardest thing in music and arts in general.The gear to do all this must be on the level like the Kemper Profiler ...and nothing less..


    I am very thankful that @CK is an open minded developer doing his thing believing strongly that his way is also the best solution for his customers.


    Many people want to do things always the way they know.And act with irony or sarcasm on everything they don't know or understand.This is how untalented human beings act which always look what the "majority" thinks or likes.


    It is always harder to be the train and no wagon.

  • following this 'logic', most of the parameters available in the AMPLIFIER slot would need to be removed as well.
    Changing the Definition of an amp was only possible by having a skilled technician 'mod' your amp, and that would be a change of the stock value to a new Definition value. Being able to smoothly adjust this on the fly is completely unheard of in the analog amp world - yet it is one of the PROFILER's most powerful features IMHO.
    Same goes for the AMPLIFIER Compression, Clarity and Tube Shape to name othe favourites of mine.

    Why impose the limitations of an analog device?

    Using that logic, why would we have 1000's of different amp profiles in the Kemper? Why not just have one amp with endless tweekability? (that's a real word, look it up).

    And why not have one wah? And one delay?

    Your logic is impeccable, but don't let irrefutable logic get in the way of a good idea.

    The Kemper Drive may well be the ultimate drive pedal, but having recognisable overdrive stomps would definitely be a bonus for anyone diving in to the new world of Kemper.


    Having said that, thanks for all the updates, I appreciate all your endless efforts that go in to making Kemper the ultimate guitar amp, it's the gift that keeps on giving :)

  • KD vs Blues Breaker, I’ve noticed that the BB has a warm subtle bottom end, that I was not able to reproduce with KD parameters available. This is perceivable specially using the neck and middle pickup, in the bass strings, playing either with fingers or pick. It’s not so evident in the treble strings, though.

    - KD’s King and BB beta settings have the drive maxed out. The KOT and BB setting I like has the drive/gain at 3 o’clock, by reducing the KD drive it gets more treble and more transparent than the actual KOT setting.

    I highly second these facts, I often use my BB clone on a low drive setting ( around 11 o'clock) and I also miss some crunch in the tone. I couldn't really replicate the tone of my BB with the available knobs.


    Dear M Kemper , please add a setting with lower drive on the BB.

  • ...

    Adding features just because the competition has them is a pretty stupid business model. Kemper has never been a “me too” company...

    The thing is, having spring reverb, an editor or decent drive pedals is just standard! It's standard, because many want and use it.


    People just wanted spring reverb - Kemper gives us thousand of Delay and Reverb options. O.k. nice - people would have been happy with spring reverb.


    And today people see companies giving away plugins of pedals for free and every new cheap plugin has dozens of them. With better editor (and core sound is getting better).


    So of course it would be great, having a few famous pedals in the Kemper too. It would be nice if I just drop in an OD1 and it just sounds always like an OD1, no matter what knob I turn.


    If another pedal, with different settings sounds close/the same - so what? The presets sound the same too. But I can't use them like the original pedals. If only the behaviour of the controls and interaction makes a difference, I still want that.

  • I for myself really like the route that Kemper has taken. We want to capture a complete amplifier: pre-amp, power-amp, cab with speaker, mic and mic-pre. There is no way one could tweak their way there with only one amp model, because the chain is so complex.


    With the Drive, this is a whole different story. CK already explained that the circuits are very much alike, with the sonic characters being even more similar. So having one KD with a bunch of presets (which are tweakable also!) is the best of both worlds. This could be the route for not only overdrive, but also for similar distortion and fuzz pedals. Heck, one could even make these kind of presets for all the other effect: compressor, phaser, chorus, delay. Although these latter effects don't have such a 'signature sound' as do the overdrives and distortions.


    Moving the volume parameter to the first page, and the slim down to the second page would seem like a logical move.

  • I can see the case for separate models and also I see the case for staying as we are. Either way it’s a fantastic addition.


    The thing with the ‘separate models’ is, from a mindset point of view, it scratches an itch. Part of the reason we all buy profiles? We are curious to know exactly what a vintage Marshall sounds like because most of us will never be able to have the real thing. Having the confidence that we have a great profile captured scratches that itch for everyone who doesn’t have the original amp. Tone Junkie is great at making profiles for sure but he’s also great at making you want them. He knows all about that itch.


    The case for doing the pedals separately is this..... ‘an expert’ is telling you that it sounds like the real deal. That satisfies the desire of the collector which most of us have to some extent.


    The current method is sonically more versatile because it is a seamless blend between them all and, as pointed out, the differences are not so huge in many cases. So, in terms of being useful? It’s more useful than separate boxes but it’s asking ‘box at a time’ compartmentalised amp collectors to think differently. Most of us guitar players aren’t great at doing that! In terms of satisfying the ‘I’m using a Klon’ vibe, the blended Kemper Drive doesn’t do this because if you’ve tweaked one of the dials too far you’ve gone beyond Klon settings and might be using something else. Which doesn’t matter sonically but I think makes the ‘authentic collector’ part of the brain uncomfortable.


    To please everyone’s little voice as well as remaining useful beyond reality (which the current method does) you could add individual boxes that have the range limitations of the originals but for sure keep the current blended drive too. Then those who care about duolicating the original things are absolutely catered for.


    Otherwise, presets get you to the original at a certain setting but with every dial tweak you’ll have to go with your ears for enjoyment, not the inner voice that says ‘it isn’t real’.


    I can see a case for both..... ears are the ultimate test but...... our enjoyment can also come from keeping the inner voice happy / secure.


    Sorry for the ramble :) Very cool addition no matter what way it goes and looking forward to playing more. Hoping fuzz pedals can feature soon too :)

  • Doesn't solve the problem, that a saved preset is just a KD and you can not see what "pedal" it is.

    It would be nice to be able to see a unique name (even if only in Rig Manager). I've been playing with the Drive all weekend and it's a great addition but I have to keep writing memos to myself to remember what's what! Might have started as a 'Klon' and I backed off the drive a hair but I only see the name "Kemper Drive" in the Rig Manager Stomp block, not "Klon" or "Klon-" or whatever I'd like to call it if I'm staying 'true' to those settings.


    Also (and I haven't seen much discussion about this) there's always stacking pedal settings to create even more variations. Think 'Wampler Dual Fusion', the ability to run a vintage OD into a hotter OD or vice-versa. This would be much easier to remember what I'd done and to experiment if I wasn't looking at two blocks both called "Kemper Drive". At least the OCD comes up as OCD.... I'd definitely like to see the ability to "name the stomp" in RM if it's possible.

  • The thing is, having spring reverb, an editor or decent drive pedals is just standard! It's standard, because many want and use it.


    People just wanted spring reverb - Kemper gives us thousand of Delay and Reverb options. O.k. nice - people would have been happy with spring reverb.

    That analogy doesn’t make sense though.


    The spring reverb is a totally separate class of effect requiring its own algorithm. The various other reverbs and delays also require different engines. Therefore, the Kemper Drive is similar to Say the Natural Reverb engine and the FullOC is like adding a spring reverb (it is a different engine). When the redid the Reverb and Delay engines they didn’t add a Lexicon, AMS, SPX90 Etc. They simply added a very powerful flexible effect that can cover a lot of that ground. The other reverb types were necessary to go beyond natural sounding reverbs.


    Another comparison for your analogy would be similar to Kemper adding a Memory Man delay and a Echoplex Delay and a Carbon Copy etc etc. With Spring reverb they added a single spring reverb engine not a Fender Reverb and a Mesa Reverb etc. It just isn’t the Kemper way.

  • That analogy doesn’t make sense though.


    The spring reverb is a totally separate class of effect requiring its own algorithm. The various other reverbs and delays also require different engines. Therefore, the Kemper Drive is similar to Say the Natural Reverb engine and the FullOC is like adding a spring reverb (it is a different engine). When the redid the Reverb and Delay engines they didn’t add a Lexicon, AMS, SPX90 Etc. They simply added a very powerful flexible effect that can cover a lot of that ground. The other reverb types were necessary to go beyond natural sounding reverbs.


    Another comparison for your analogy would be similar to Kemper adding a Memory Man delay and a Echoplex Delay and a Carbon Copy etc etc. With Spring reverb they added a single spring reverb engine not a Fender Reverb and a Mesa Reverb etc. It just isn’t the Kemper way.

    My analogy refers to the "business model" you mentioned. What people want and what Kemper gives them finally. Piece by piece. To keep their product interesting and in all mouths.


    People from day one wanted "spring reverb", not Fender ... spring reverb - just spring reverb added. Everything else is a (very!) nice bonus.


    Many wanted an editor - and it still bugs and lacks functionality (control looper, easier way to handle presets, not so confusing saving of rigs...). Different story.


    Many wanted exactly a Klon, a Timmy, a Boss HM-2.


    Not a preset with 0.0 unity volume setting that represents an original volume pot setting of 1:30 o'clock and if you change other knobs you come closer to another pedal and if you add more gain it is not the pedal anymore and you can not see what it is if you save it but you can load another preset that is not a sweetspot too and you have to raise volume +2 to get closer to the full level setting of a TS if turn it more it is not TS level anymore.


    Or look it up in the manual. Then load a preset and remember Tone 5 on the preset of the breaker is around 2 o'clock on the original and if you want the original 12 o'clock just turn Tone down by ear and the Tone 5 on King clean is 2 o'clock on the original and the same Tone 5 on the King Overdrive preset is more 12:30 o'clock on the pedal and Drive 6.5 equals more the full drive setting on the pedal.

    Edited 3 times, last by Ibot39 ().

  • It would be nice to be able to see a unique name (even if only in Rig Manager). I've been playing with the Drive all weekend and it's a great addition but I have to keep writing memos to myself to remember what's what! Might have started as a 'Klon' and I backed off the drive a hair but I only see the name "Kemper Drive" in the Rig Manager Stomp block, not "Klon" or "Klon-" or whatever I'd like to call it if I'm staying 'true' to those settings.


    Also (and I haven't seen much discussion about this) there's always stacking pedal settings to create even more variations. Think 'Wampler Dual Fusion', the ability to run a vintage OD into a hotter OD or vice-versa. This would be much easier to remember what I'd done and to experiment if I wasn't looking at two blocks both called "Kemper Drive". At least the OCD comes up as OCD.... I'd definitely like to see the ability to "name the stomp" in RM if it's possible.

    This.

    I really like the Kemper Drive concept - but the lack of a persistent preset name - for ALL presets - is a frustration.

    When you add a preset and then edit it - the KPA screen says "editing preset XYX". If you save, it disappears. If it said something like "Edited version of XYZ", I would at least know where I started. Based on comments I've seen about this issue (which is not a new one by any means), we're likely stuck with things as-is. Kemper's opinion seems to believe not having it is the lesser of two evils. Both approaches have their problems.

    My argument is that adding a name has yet to be tried. At least in public beta, we've never seen it.

    I don't believe adding specific blocks for Klon, TS, Bluesbreaker etc. is the correct answer. But nor do I think the current beta approach is either. We can tweak settings on Profiles as much as we like - and the amp it's based on remains persistent. I realize the analogy breaks down because a profile cannot be morphed from screaming Marshall to a clean Fender Champ

    Heck - adding the ability to add comments to a stomp/effect/amp/cab or even performance would be appreciated. Right now, you can really only do that at the Rig level, no?

    “Without music, life would be a mistake.” - Friedrich Nietzsche