[Public Beta] PROFILER OS 8.0.0.21450

  • Can you also hear how it seems not only to be a volume thing but also affects the perceived "openness" and kind of "steps back", "compresses" for the lack of better words? My guess (without in-depth analysis) is that the transients with their high frequency content get compressed which results in a slightly muffled, less open sound.

    I have not had enough experience with the new Kemper Drive to know how it interacts.


    But what you describe above seems normal to me.


    With most tube amps (at least Fender amps - that is what I’m familiar with) you can raise the volume knob a certain amount and get more volume, then you reach a spot where you get distortion AND more volume, but then there will be a point where you don’t get any more volume but rather more distortion and compression. That seems to be what you’re describing.

  • Let me try in other words, using your measurements:

    The total dynamic range your volume parameter settings from -5.0 to +2.5 (or +5.0) results in just about 8dB difference, at best.

    That's ridiculously low as we've already stated that a real overdrive pedal can push wayyyyyy harder.

    Christoph stated something like 24dB for a Klon, just as an example.

    And I think Christoph will be able to see/hear the same with your and my advise how to check.

    We are again losing the track. This is very time consuming.


    A boost of 24 dB into an amp does mean a 24 dB boost of the measured amp output volume in the DAW, due to the compression and distortion of the amp.

    I am sure that you are aware of that.

  • I have not had enough experience with the new Kemper Drive to know how it interacts.


    But what you describe above seems normal to me.


    With most tube amps (at least Fender amps - that is what I’m familiar with) you can raise the volume knob a certain amount and get more volume, then you reach a spot where you get distortion AND more volume, but then there will be a point where you don’t get any more volume but rather more distortion and compression. That seems to be what you’re describing.

    This!


    And it doen't matter if it's real tubes or a digital profile.

  • This is what I am going to play around with as per CK’s suggestion. Though we do not have tubes to push, so we have to try and simulate the effect and sound differently.

    Not exactly.

    You push the virtual tubes the same way as you would with real ones.

    Turn up the Volume of your overdrive. That's how it's always done.

  • Thanks again for confirming :)

    Can you also hear how it seems not only to be a volume thing but also affects the perceived "openness" and kind of "steps back", "compresses" for the lack of better words? My guess (without in-depth analysis) is that the transients with their high frequency content get compressed which results in a slightly muffled, less open sound.

    This.

    You have demonstrated this.

    Atlantic did neither mention an unusual side effect in sound, nor a degradation in sound, when he turned the KD volume beyond 2.5.

    So I must assume that he had the same regular results as I had, unfortunately.

  • 8.0.1 new beta?

    Cry Baby Slash Classic Wah -> KPA -> main to FOH ->KRK6 -> Monitor out DXR10 -> EXP DVP3 -> Remote: Guitars: Slash Gibson Les Paul Custom Shop - James Tyler Variax JTV59 - Epiphone Les Paul with EMG 81 - Furch GN2 Nylon -> Maybach Lester 60 -> Kemper Powered Cab -/ Focusrite Scarlett

  • We are again losing the track. This is very time consuming.


    A boost of 24 dB into an amp does not mean a 24 dB boost of the measured amp output volume in the DAW, due to the compression and distortion of the amp.

    I am sure that you are aware of that.

    Tiny, but quite important correction... ;)


    -Jari

  • This.

    You have demonstrated this.

    Atlantic did neither mention an unusual side effect in sound, nor a degradation in sound, when he turned the KD volume beyond 2.5.

    So I must assume that he had the same regular results as I had, unfortunately.

    He did manage to reproduce the volume drop.

    Maybe he couldn't confirm the loss of "openness" because he used a very short loop.

    Read his post here:

    [Public Beta] PROFILER OS 8.0.0.21450

  • As CK stated, you can absolutely push a profile and it behaves like a tube amp would (for the most part). This is easily demonstrated by just rolling on and off the guitar volume and listening to the KPA do its magic.


    For me, there are really only 2 use cases for stomp behavior that I would use (YMMV).


    1) Rhythm to lead tone where I want both the tone and the overall output volume to change

    2) Rhythm tone that I want a sound I can't achieve without a stomp.


    In case 1, I need a single button on the FC to get me from Rhythm to Lead tone. Since I can do this today, I have no problem.


    Additionally, both of my current main guitars (PRS SE with Bare Knucles and American Strat with Lindsey Fralin's), the max output of my guitars are low enough that I do not experience the volume drop being described here in any of the rigs I have tried it on.


    So as I understand it, this issue is only a problem if you are going in quite hot to the KPA? I don't understand how you lose dynamic range.

  • I don't understand how you lose dynamic range.

    Dynamically, the amp behaves like a soft-knee compressor as you raise the input gain, so your level peaks (digging in / harder playing) are progressively-limited, which means that the range between softest and loudest signal is reduced.


  • This!


    And it doen't matter if it's real tubes or a digital profile.

    No, not this. It's been a long thread so it seems you missed it, but multiple users have now reported this issue on multiple units. Kemper's amp behaves as expected when pushed with an external pedal, but when pushed with an internal drive pedal's volume, it does not behave as expected and its perceived volume decreases.

  • Not exactly.

    You push the virtual tubes the same way as you would with real ones.

    Turn up the Volume of your overdrive. That's how it's always done.

    ok, so with testing this and adjusting the KD volume all I get is a more saturated and compressed sound. I can recreate this exactly by using a compressor in slot D after the KD stomp C.
    So if I turn the KD volume down to zero and then set the compressor volume to the same value, I get exactly the same sound. So is the KD volume a compression? I guess it’s trying to recreate the saturation of the tubes with the volume setting?


    I still do not get any volume increase though, just more compression/saturation. I even tried extreme clean sense setting and still nothing


    If I place a pure boost in slot x I do get a slight boost

  • Yes, real tube amps have a tipping point where they will only get more saturated and compressed as you increase pure volume. Usually, it’s when the amp is at least 6-7 on the volume already (of course, that varies). Kemper seems to do it even for edge of breakup profiles resembling an amp on 2 or 3. You should still be able to achieve a noticeable volume increase with an amp set like that.


    ...certainly not a decrease anyway hahaha.

  • Thanks a lot, Atlantic :)

    As a huge fan of dynamic amp rigs, I love how soft picking/strumming keeps the amp (relative) clean. But once you wanna "rock", you'd naturally strum harder. So this hard strumming is supposed to push the amp ... and the overdrive is supposed to help pushing.

    Is it not possible to lower the input signal and choose a profile which will achieve this? If the internal drives behave properly at a lower input signal, the proper profile and higher master output gets you where you want to be, no?

  • Well that is emphatic lol. Is there a reason why the answer is no? I apparently am ignorant and would love some insight as to why not. Perhaps your ear is far more discerning than mine. I’ve had success with sounds that behave in a touch sensitive manner as you described without super hot input. I might need to tweak in the amp section to get what I’m after, (Usually compression) but I get there and the KD interacts as advertised. You certainly don’t owe me explanations, but if I can learn something from you, I happily will.

  • If the internal drives behave properly at a lower input signal, the proper profile and higher master output gets you where you want to be, no?

    I setup my amp exactly the way I want it to sound with my guitar X. Great, this works VERY well, awesome.

    Now I want to boost the amp profile the exact same way I could boost my actual amp. Doesn't work.

    So you suggest that I should take another guitar with lower output, profile the amp in a way that I don't want and change the master output of the Profiler to get to some place that I didn't want to go to in the first place? You see how this simply doesn't work?

  • So you suggest that I should take another guitar with lower output, profile the amp in a way that I don't want and change the master output of the Profiler to get to some place that I didn't want to go to in the first place? You see how this simply doesn't work?

    I see what you’re saying. However, (and admittedly without much thought) What would happen if you attenuate the signal from the guitar you want prior to setting up and dialing in your sound? Could you achieve the tone you're after with THAT guitar if it’s output was less? Would this then allow you to reduce input sensitivity by the same amount on KPA? It certainly doesn’t seem ideal, but perhaps a workaround. Maybe I’ll try doing this for my own benefit. Sorry if my queries are annoying or ignorant.

  • ckemper


    hi Christoph


    I got a chance to test the OD level Vs basic rig level issue yesterday.


    When I started my profiler I was prompted to update to a newer beta version. I did this and everything went well.


    I then loaded KD into stomp A , GS in stomp B, Full OC in stomp C and One DS in stomp D. All sett with low drive and volume at 0. I toggled each on and off and compared the level against the basic amp. I now get no volume drop when engaging OD pedals. I tried this with a few lower gain (1.5 - 2.5 range) profiles and all worked as intended. I tried it with various clean sens settings and, once again, everything worked properly. I didn’t try it with any higher gain profiles though but so far everything seems good.


    As for lightbox volume drop issue, I tried this with several rigs including Martin’s TubeThomsen profile. When I raise the KD volume with gain set low (I used Martin’s settings from his first demo video) I get very little volume change at all just a general fattening of the sound with more overdrive. However, I also no longer get a volume drop above 2.3 which I did get previously. I don’t have a real Klon to compare the behaviour against. Personally, I don’t mind the way compression and drive are working but as I’m not a pedal user I don’t feel my opinion is particularly valid in this respect.

  • He did manage to reproduce the volume drop.

    Maybe he couldn't confirm the loss of "openness" because he used a very short loop.

    Read his post here:

    [Public Beta] PROFILER OS 8.0.0.21450

    A drop by 2 dB in that range is not necessarily a volume drop, as bass components and dynamics change.

    Could also be a drop from 17.1 to 15.9 dB.


    Your volume drop was different and has symptoms of a software bug that only happens on your units so far.

    It appeared with every of the Profilers pedals on your devices.


    You are a listed beta tester, and this is not an issue related to the Kemper Drive.

    Please let us continue this discussion on the beta forum.