Whats wrong with RM and Performances?

  • I'm not sure if this is (exactly) what others are talking about but since I installed the most recent version of RM


    1 - I load a New Performance and pull up a list of profiles in RM

    2 - I double click on a rig I want to load into Slot 1

    3 - I switch to Slot 2 and double click the next rig in RM

    4 - I look at the KPA and notice that the second rig I chose is loaded into Slot 1, effectively replacing the rig I selected for that slot.


    At first, I thought maybe I imagined switching slots but really hadn't. After carefully repeating this process several times, I realized that RM is indeed loading rigs into the previous slot. One time, I saved the performance after loading in the first rig and it seemed to behave after that. Probably because the Kemper and RM were finally "in sync". Yesterday, I tried it again and no matter what I did or how many times I saved, RM just kept loading rigs into the wrong slot. It sounds similar to what others have said on here but I thought I would mention it in case it gives the software team some more helpful data.


    For the record, I don't remember having this problem before updating.

  • yeah, this is huge difference. The issue is that RM and KPA get out of sync easily when you are building a performance using RM with KPA in performance mode (my case). My process is very incremental - I build my performances slowly, often listening to what I just added to hear if new slot plays well with the rest. Doing so from RM always leads to issues, which is super frustrating. If a workflow is allowed from UI it should be predictible.

    I got a chance to test this afternoon. i spent all afternoon creating and editing performances using 3 different workflows. I created performances in the MyProfiler folder (as you described) and in the Local Library. RM was rock solid in all cases.


    I do totally agree about the workflow in RM being less than totally intuitive though and I think there is definitely plenty of room for improvement.

  • yeah, this is huge difference. The issue is that RM and KPA get out of sync easily when you are building a performance using RM with KPA in performance mode (my case). My process is very incremental - I build my performances slowly, often listening to what I just added to hear if new slot plays well with the rest. Doing so from RM always leads to issues, which is super frustrating. If a workflow is allowed from UI it should be predictible.

    Are you will having this issue in Rig Manager 3.1?

  • I have similar frustrations building performances.. it’s random and unreliable, and has a mind of its own. I also have had same issue as above with wrong slots.
    I think it comes down to sync issues. Im using latest non-beta.

    last night- wanted to copy a rig from one slot to another on an existing performance. The destination slot was empty/unused.


    In RM , Right click slot - copy. Right click destination slot in same performance - paste.
    Appears to paste successfully in RM (looks right). Little popup on both RM and Kemper stage say “syncing performance”.


    but the sync hasn’t happened properly. The rig that has pasted in on the unit is actually a blank one.

  • It is such a frustration working with RM and performances. I'm trying to migrate a set list where I've previously used a Tube amp rig and this is a frigging nightmare. The ability to randomly overwrite stuff I'm happy with is going to be the death of my relationship with my Kemper.

  • There has to be a better way of using Rig Manager to move between the Browser and Performance on the Kemper. I am constantly inadvertently overwriting Performance slots also. It seems to depend on whether you are in Browser or Performances on the Kemper as to what RM will actually let you do? This should not be - it should work that when in RM, you can move profiles between Browser and Performances more easily and reliably, without auto overwriting performance slots with whatever you click in the Browser. Seems most logical to me if you could have the Browser and Performance libraries up in windows side by side, to drag and drop, or something like that.


    Edit: I can bring Performance up in a separate window, but would be better if the program was set up to frame this

  • There has to be a better way of using Rig Manager to move between the Browser and Performance on the Kemper. I am constantly inadvertently overwriting Performance slots also. It seems to depend on whether you are in Browser or Performances on the Kemper as to what RM will actually let you do? This should not be - it should work that when in RM, you can move profiles between Browser and Performances more easily and reliably, without auto overwriting performance slots with whatever you click in the Browser. Seems most logical to me if you could have the Browser and Performance libraries up in windows side by side, to drag and drop, or something like that.


    Edit: I can bring Performance up in a separate window, but would be better if the program was set up to frame this

    Have you tried opening multiple RM windows? You should be able to get exactly that workflow already.

    Kemper PowerRack |Kemper Stage| Rivera 4x12 V30 cab | Yamaha DXR10 pair | UA Apollo Twin Duo | Adam A7X | Cubase DAW
    Fender Telecaster 62 re-issue chambered mahogany | Kramer! (1988 or so...) | Gibson Les Paul R7 | Fender Stratocaster HBS-1 Classic Relic Custom Shop | LTD EC-1000 Evertune | 1988 Desert Yellow JEM

  • Heh you made that edit while I was writing. It's not above my post (at the point of writing) but made it into my quote. Weird timing.

    Kemper PowerRack |Kemper Stage| Rivera 4x12 V30 cab | Yamaha DXR10 pair | UA Apollo Twin Duo | Adam A7X | Cubase DAW
    Fender Telecaster 62 re-issue chambered mahogany | Kramer! (1988 or so...) | Gibson Les Paul R7 | Fender Stratocaster HBS-1 Classic Relic Custom Shop | LTD EC-1000 Evertune | 1988 Desert Yellow JEM

  • Heh you made that edit while I was writing. It's not above my post (at the point of writing) but made it into my quote. Weird timing.

    Ha - yeah. I realized after I posted and made that edit. I am using a laptop, so screen space is limited. If I was using double monitors, that would work great.

  • There has to be a better way of using Rig Manager to move between the Browser and Performance on the Kemper. I am constantly inadvertently overwriting Performance slots also. It seems to depend on whether you are in Browser or Performances on the Kemper as to what RM will actually let you do?

    Yes, in order to edit performances the KPA needs to be in performance mode on the chicken head knob (or whatever the stage equivalent is). I have often had random results and blamed the KPA or Rig Manager when it turned out to be user error. Once I got my head round this everything has worked pretty reliably. However, I totally agree that it is way to easy to miss this or forget ro make the change. It would be MUCH easier and more reliable if RM automatically put the KPA in Performance mode when editing or creating performances.

  • Hi, Alan.


    How about a warning in Rig Manager when you create/edit a Performance (if the Profiler is in Browse mode) - "Turn on Performance Mode on the Profiler"


    Yes, in order to edit performances the KPA needs to be in performance mode on the chicken head knob (or whatever the stage equivalent is). I have often had random results and blamed the KPA or Rig Manager when it turned out to be user error. Once I got my head round this everything has worked pretty reliably. However, I totally agree that it is way to easy to miss this or forget ro make the change. It would be MUCH easier and more reliable if RM automatically put the KPA in Performance mode when editing or creating performances.

    It would confuse me if Rig Manager could change my Profiler head from Browse to Performance Mode because the chicken head would still be pointed at Browse. It's different on the Stage where there are buttons and when you switch modes, the corresponding button lights up.

  • ST yes a warning would help but still not necessarily perfect. I understand your issue with the chicken head knob though. There are definitely pros and cons to all option but I really believe that most of the problems people experience woth RM and performances are probably linked to the orofiler not being in performance mode when working on them in RM.

  • Am I the only one that have problem with latest beta? It can work one time abut if I cllick on another profile it stops working and say there's no usb connection or just don't work at all when I start RM. I tried to reinstall but it didn't help either. :cursing:

    Think for yourself, or others will think for you wihout thinking of you

    Henry David Thoreau

  • Trouble with the RM - me too ..


    MAC OS: 11.3.1, RM 3.2.28, Kemper Head: 8.1.0.27288, remote connected to the KemperI am now quite frustrated using the RM to change and arrange Performances and Slots. There is a lot of chance and surprise involved, and changes happen as if by magic.Today I saved the slot (1) of a performance as a rig in the pool (on the Kemper). Then I renamed this rig in the pool (in the RM). The slot (1) was then given the name of the renamed rig in the performance (can also be seen in the Kemper ..). Then I could not find the renamed rig in the pool (RM), but another rig (it seems as if it was the rig that I had last activated in the pool) was now found twice in the pool AND the slot (1st ) The performance had the name and the tags of the double rig in the pool. It all sounds very confused, but sorry, it's not fun. Synchronization problem RM-Kemper ?? So I disconnected the Kemper from the USB and restarted the RM.
    Then I reconnected the Kemper via USB and suddenly the originally exported and renamed rig could be found in the pool (RM). The double rig was gone again. However, the name and the rig tags of the performance slot (1) in the RM were still identical to the originally double rig from the pool - in the Kemper, however, the slot (1) of the performance was again as in its original state. The slot had completely different names / tags in the RM than in the Kemper - despite switching the performance several times with the remote or as a preview in the RM - it did not change anything. RM and Kemper showed different information about the same slot (1) of the performance. Synchronization problem RM-Kemper ?? So I disconnected the USB connection again, so the remote lost the connection to the Kemper and did not want to start again. Network cable disconnected, plugged in again - No connection remote to the Kemper. Then I selected a different performance on the Kemper, whereupon the remote started again. However, the name of the slot (1) of the performance in the Kemper was still not identical to the name of the slot (1) in the RM. With the assumption that the synchronization (RM - Kemper) must take place again, I edited another slot in the performance (in the Kemper) and saved it in the Kemper. After disconnecting the USB connection and restarting RM, the name of the was correct Slot in the RM and Kemper are the same. Synchronization problem RM-Kemper ??
    I have learned to love, appreciate and use the "old rig manager" with much less great functions over many years as a very reliable companion. You could rely on it. Now I don't even dare to make any changes to the performances ... I'm sad and at a loss ...

  • Trouble with the RM - me too ..


    MAC OS: 11.3.1, RM 3.2.28, Kemper Head: 8.1.0.27288, remote connected to the KemperI am now quite frustrated using the RM to change and arrange Performances and Slots. There is a lot of chance and surprise involved, and changes happen as if by magic.Today I saved the slot (1) of a performance as a rig in the pool (on the Kemper). Then I renamed this rig in the pool (in the RM). The slot (1) was then given the name of the renamed rig in the performance (can also be seen in the Kemper ..). Then I could not find the renamed rig in the pool (RM), but another rig (it seems as if it was the rig that I had last activated in the pool) was now found twice in the pool AND the slot (1st ) The performance had the name and the tags of the double rig in the pool. It all sounds very confused, but sorry, it's not fun. Synchronization problem RM-Kemper ?? So I disconnected the Kemper from the USB and restarted the RM.
    Then I reconnected the Kemper via USB and suddenly the originally exported and renamed rig could be found in the pool (RM). The double rig was gone again. However, the name and the rig tags of the performance slot (1) in the RM were still identical to the originally double rig from the pool - in the Kemper, however, the slot (1) of the performance was again as in its original state. The slot had completely different names / tags in the RM than in the Kemper - despite switching the performance several times with the remote or as a preview in the RM - it did not change anything. RM and Kemper showed different information about the same slot (1) of the performance. Synchronization problem RM-Kemper ?? So I disconnected the USB connection again, so the remote lost the connection to the Kemper and did not want to start again. Network cable disconnected, plugged in again - No connection remote to the Kemper. Then I selected a different performance on the Kemper, whereupon the remote started again. However, the name of the slot (1) of the performance in the Kemper was still not identical to the name of the slot (1) in the RM. With the assumption that the synchronization (RM - Kemper) must take place again, I edited another slot in the performance (in the Kemper) and saved it in the Kemper. After disconnecting the USB connection and restarting RM, the name of the was correct Slot in the RM and Kemper are the same. Synchronization problem RM-Kemper ??
    I have learned to love, appreciate and use the "old rig manager" with much less great functions over many years as a very reliable companion. You could rely on it. Now I don't even dare to make any changes to the performances ... I'm sad and at a loss ...

    But RM 3.2.28 is PUBLIC BETA, so you shoud be aware of possible problems when using it. Why don't you wait for stable version?

  • But RM 3.2.28 is PUBLIC BETA, so you shoud be aware of possible problems when using it. Why don't you wait for stable version?

    I'm only a casual Kemper user, but I know that these problems go back through quite a number of non beta releases. Which stable version number would you suggest we use in the interim to avoid these problems?

  • ST yes a warning would help but still not necessarily perfect. I understand your issue with the chicken head knob though. There are definitely pros and cons to all option but I really believe that most of the problems people experience woth RM and performances are probably linked to the orofiler not being in performance mode when working on them in RM.

    RM can "read" what is in Performances even when the Kemper is in Browser. Would be great if it could "write" to the performances even when the Kemper is not. And if you are using RM to tweak a profile in a Performance even if the Kemper is in Browser, I believe currently you can still hear a "demo" of that sound - you just can't save any changes. I'd prefer if you could save those changes. When I am building performances, I am constantly back and forth between the browser and the performances and it is less than ideal to have to physically change the Kemper back and forth. And often I forget I am in Performances, and click a profile in the browser to demo it, and it overwrites the performance. This part bugs me and is totally my user error, but I think the Kemper could be improved on this.