Dual delay

    The Kemper nails the Edge tone in songs where he uses straight up single delay pedals. It struggles with the dual delays and the delays where the delay sound is modded with chorus or vibrato to get that Edge "shimmer."


    I read an old article in a guitar magazine, from around the time they were starting their 360 tour a few years ago, that had some interesting tidbits. He's changed the speakers in his AC30s, and also put Vox speakers in his Fender amps. The Kemper is amazing in it's ability to allow me to do this on my own, in a matter of seconds.


    He said he tours with about two dozen guitars, and often uses a different guitar for each song and said something about how each guitar fits a different song. He uses Strats, his old Explorer, Les Pauls, Telecasters, hollow bodies, you name it.


    He refines his rig setup constantly, and said he is always on the hunt for better tone. His setup looks like a NASA launch control. He also has a guitar tech who operates his effects and amps under the stage. The Edge uses his floor switch the first several shows until his tech gets comfortable with what he needs at each point during the show, then he turns it over to the tech for the rest of the tour. The poor tech has a 6 inch slit to look out of to get cues from The Edge, which might only be a raise of an eyebrow. Kind of funny.


    All that being the case, anyone chasing the exact tone of The Edge is on a fool's errand, in my opinion. He also stated in the interview that a lot of what he does, and I think this is true of many players, is in his technique and his fingers. He uses a lot of harmonics, muted strumming and scratches, etc. to carry the rhythm with the drummer.


    I fiddled around last night and used my Eleven Rack as an effects unit in the loop on the Kemper, and this worked great. The Eleven Rack has a Memory Man Deluxe delay that mods the delay, and I put this after the amp and cab stack on the Kemper, then use the Kemper delay on top. I'd use the Eleven Rack straight on with it's amp and cabs, but the Kemper really does sound a great deal better.


    Oh, and I also wear a black beanie. :D

    Chose Tap delay.
    Set both delay sides to 3/16 clock (that is dotted eigth)
    Setup a reasonable feedback (50% ?)
    Tap the desired tempo in regular quarter notes.
    Play eigths notes on your guitar, as The Edge or Gilmore does (not fast 16th, as the delay will fill in the 16th).
    There you are.


    Tell me your experience.

    And to follow up on this: I am a little bit shocked about your posts.
    Is anybody reading the manual?


    1. The Profiler delay is a stereo or dual or ping pong delay. You can get the shimmering by the modulation parameter, that is set to a non zero value by default, because we love modulated delays so much.


    2. You can set the delay time either by musical 16th notes in the Tap delay or by milliseconds in the free or doppler delay.


    3. By asking for a second delay effect in addition to the existing one you would use two delays in series. A classic dual delay - as ours - works in parallel, which produces a whole different sound


    4. Can you tell me a typical application and settings of two delay units in series? In 25 years of being a musician, producer and instrument designer I have not noticed anybody using two delays in series. If there is room for improvement, I will be happy to write new code!


    5. We have close plans to provide delay effects in every slot. This has been asked by users that want to use a delay in front of the amp.


    6. The Edge and Gilmore do not use two delays in series, from what I know and hear. They use two delays in parallel to achieve a stereo effect. This is a dual delay.


    7. We had the Protools plug-in version of our Access Virus synthesizer on the marked more than a decade. We know a number of top level producers that used our plug-in only for the delay effect, that works similar to the one in the Profiler.


    8. There is a reason why our Tap Delay uses the uncommon setting of multiples of 16th (3/16, 4/16 etc.). Because 5/16 or 7/16 have no equivalent note symbol, but they sound fantastic.
    In addition to my previous post, set the left delay to 5/16 and right to 3/16. Play eigth notes. You will get the Edge Delay as a ping pong delay. A bit harder to play, but more crazy, more stereo, more rhythm. I wonder if our heroes have ever used that delay setting.


    If you find it hard to follow, tell me. We could make a little video to show how to handle it. I am a big fan of the sound of The Edge and David Gilmour. Our delay algorithms are inspired by them.


    CK

    David Gilmour's Run Like Hell, as far as I know, originally uses two digital delay pedals in series to achieve the effect where the second delay repeats the first one.

    Use your ears, not your mathematical sense.

    http://www.kitrae.net/music/David_Gilmour_Tone_Building.html


    Copied from this site:


    "David has stated he used two delays for the studio recording of Run Like Hell, one in 3/4 time and one in 4/4 time. He likely used the MXR Digital Delay System 1. The main 3/4 time delay is 380ms, or what David calls "triplet" time, and the second 4/4 delay time is 507ms, or one repeat on every beat. The second delay thickens space between the main delay repeats by double tapping your 3/4 repeat with a 4/4, creating a huge delay rhythm. When using one amp, it is best to place the second 507ms delay after the main 380ms delay in your signal chain, and set the second delay repeat volume MUCH lower, with roughly half the repeats of the main delay. That second delay is just barely there, and too much volume can make a double tapped mess of the main delay. If using a 2 amp setup, you can try running one 380ms delay to each amp and keep the volume and delay repeats about the same for each, or you can run the 380ms delay to one amp and the 507ms dealy to the other for a slightly different feel. To figure a 4/4 dealy time to work with any 3/4 triplet delay time, you can split the 3/4 time delay into thirds. For example, 380ms is your triplet time. 380 divided by 3 = 126.7ms. To get the 4/4 time delay, simply multiply 126.7 x 4 = 506.8."

    Use your ears, not your mathematical sense.


    Manfred (Mann), I cannot achieve that without two separate delays and I would like to as well, however, I do use a BOSS DD-2 or TC Flashback with the Kemper and then it is possible. If any other fully grown male individual can provide us with a clip that sounds like that example using the existing kemper tap delay, please feel free to do so.

    Quote from sorefingers

    The Kemper nails the Edge tone in songs where he uses straight up single delay pedals. It struggles with the dual delays and the delays where the delay sound is modded with chorus or vibrato to get that Edge "shimmer."


    I fiddled around last night and used my Eleven Rack as an effects unit in the loop on the Kemper, and this worked great. The Eleven Rack has a Memory Man Deluxe delay that mods the delay, and I put this after the amp and cab stack on the Kemper, then use the Kemper delay on top. I'd use the Eleven Rack straight on with it's amp and cabs, but the Kemper really does sound a great deal better.


    And I overlooked that:
    The Profiler delay modulates each side of the dual delay. There is that chorus and shimmer effect. The modulation in the Delay has a parameter called "Modulation".


    What are we talking about?

    Quote from donbarzini

    Manfred (Mann), I cannot achieve that without two separate delays and I would like to as well, however, I do use a BOSS DD-2 or TC Flashback with the Kemper and then it is possible. If any other fully grown male individual can provide us with a clip that sounds like that example using the existing kemper tap delay, please feel free to do so.


    Congratulations!
    The DD 2 is not even a dual delay but still capable of making that sound. I am aware of that.
    What did you try to recreate that sound on the Profiler?

    Quote from ckemper

    Congratulations!
    The DD 2 is not even a dual delay but still capable of making that sound. I am aware of that.
    What did you try to recreate that sound on the Profiler?

    I think he means that he uses the Kemper PLUS the DD-2, not just the DD-2, so then it is a dual delay solution.

    Use your ears, not your mathematical sense.