Profiles with different volumes

Quote from mwitte

Why have distorted profiles have different loudness? I compare only the pure profile. All volume settings are at + -0.
I thought the Kemper automatically compensates the volume for profiling?

I especially noticed the difference in the DIEZEL profiles of Mr. "r.sirius" (which are great by the way) compared to the factory presets "Kerosin 1."
Generally I find the factory preset to some slightly underpowered compared to the breast of the USER presets. What's happening in the profiling process to created that difference in loudness?

Best Regards
(and sorry for my bad english)

Basically it is the same as with music recordings. Low end frequencies take up more energy compared to higher frequencies. Thus, a profile of an amplifier with a huge low end response will sound softer compared to a more mid focused sound.

What Tyler wrote. Basically, the perceived loudness and the actual energy of an audio signal are two different things.
The KPA normalizes the signal energy, but human hearing is differently sensitive to different frequencies. In order to get what you require, a specific algorithm would be implemented in the machine (involving a spectrum analyser, and a database related to the perceived loudness... you got the idea), and all you'd get would be a "mean" result anyway, since acoustic sensitivity varies from person to person as well.

When you normalize any record the point where the highest volume is defines how much the volume can get increased to reach 0 db at that point. Wich means at the other side that everything else is not as loud. The more difference you have in your frequencies the less they can be at same volume after the normalizing. Very different sounds depending on the curve, depending on the point where the highest volume is and if the highs or the mids or lows are louder. It's impossible to have the same volume for everything, except you take a compressor and bring all frequencies to the same volume. OK, that's what they do with final mixes at least when they get played on air, radioprograms are compressed to death. Nothing that would make sence with the kpa. It's uncompressed and therefore must be unequal.

Why can't we readjust the volume and save it as it is ?

Quote from sweetrock

Why can't we readjust the volume and save it as it is ?

We can, and we should when necessary.

I do it continously...

Volume is the #1 adjustment for me. It's very rare that I leave it "as is" with a downloaded profile. Some are too soft and others are too loud ...

How do you guys adjust Clean and Distorted profiles without them clipping?
Both having the same master volume, I find some clean profiles clip real easy. Like the Morgan20 (my favourite clean profile by far) clips real easy and i can't reach a similar volume to a distorted profile without it clipping first.

I find myself having to constantly adjust the volume on my focurite2i2 to compensate for the volume difference when hearing through monitors between profiles.

Which volumes do you guys adjust, cab volume, profile volume, master volume? Which is most effective to keep volumes nominal?

Novocaine: reduce the clean sense.

Quote from novocaine

How do you guys adjust Clean and Distorted profiles without them clipping?
Both having the same master volume, I find some clean profiles clip real easy. Like the Morgan20 (my favourite clean profile by far) clips real easy and i can't reach a similar volume to a distorted profile without it clipping first.

I find myself having to constantly adjust the volume on my focurite2i2 to compensate for the volume difference when hearing through monitors between profiles.

Which volumes do you guys adjust, cab volume, profile volume, master volume? Which is most effective to keep volumes nominal?

Hey novocaine!

The Morgan AC20 is also my favourite and main profile.
You´re right, it IS very loud compared to other profiles.
The solution for you (after getting the clean sens right) is to lower the profile volume by lowering cab volume or amp volume, not master volume.
Do this once for the Morgan AC20 (compared to a fairly clean stock profile like e.g. the Roland JC 120) and you´re done.

Quote from DocLine6forum

The solution for you (after getting the clean sens right) is to lower the profile volume by lowering cab volume or amp volume, not master volume.

+1 I tend to use the cab volume for adjustments first.

I want to have similar loudness between clean and distorted profiles.
Distorted ones are often much louder than clean ones.
So I reduce the volume of the distorted profiles (it doesn't change the sound right?) so that the clean ones don't clip.
Am I doing that right?
By the way I find that raising the volume will cause clipping too if you are just below the limit (for example when have reduced the clean sense...)

Quote from francodimo

I want to have similar loudness between clean and distorted profiles.
Distorted ones are often much louder than clean ones.
So I reduce the volume of the distorted profiles (it doesn't change the sound right?) so that the clean ones don't clip.
Am I doing that right?
By the way I find that raising the volume will cause clipping too if you are just below the limit (for example when have reduced the clean sense...)

No, first you should INCREASE Clean Sens so the Input is not yet clipping. At this point distorted profiles shouldn't be siginficantly louder anymore.
After that, you can do some fine tuning: Either back off Clean sense again a bit (if clean is too loud now compared with distorted profiles) or lower the amp or cab profiles of specific distorted profiles (if they're still too loud compared to clean).

Quote from DocLine6forum

No, first you should INCREASE Clean Sens so the Input is not yet clipping.

And very likely decrease the distortion sense ...

Quote from DocLine6forum

No, first you should INCREASE Clean Sens so the Input is not yet clipping. At this point distorted profiles shouldn't be siginficantly louder anymore.
After that, you can do some fine tuning: Either back off Clean sense again a bit (if clean is too loud now compared with distorted profiles) or lower the amp or cab profiles of specific distorted profiles (if they're still too loud compared to clean).

This is in relation to the SAME profile right? To adjust Clean Sense so that when the gain is at 0, it matches the volume of the distorted sound (default distorted profile)

I think we are referring to different Clean and Distorted. Some Clean profiles are louder and some are too soft, it's hard to raise the volume to match other distorted profiles without experiencing clipping. I guess this is just the way the profiles are profiled?

Quote from novocaine

This is in relation to the SAME profile right? To adjust Clean Sense so that when the gain is at 0, it matches the volume of the distorted sound (default distorted profile)

I think we are referring to different Clean and Distorted. Some Clean profiles are louder and some are too soft, it's hard to raise the volume to match other distorted profiles without experiencing clipping. I guess this is just the way the profiles are profiled?

Not only in relation to the same profile but also in relation to other profiles as I wrote.
The test with one profile having the same loudness when going up and down with distortion is a good one and if clean sens is set right it also helps a great deal levelling out different profiles.

But of course due to the nature of different profiling authors different profiles still can sound louder.
In this case I use cab volume and amp volume.

Also don't forget that some profiles have an EQ slot going or rig EQ with boosting lows, mids and highs somewhat.
Due to the nature of this EQing being active this will also bring the level of the rig up.