Digital Rights Management

  • Make it so you can't use a profile you either didn't create on your device(s) or don't own a license for. A la Eventide with their H9.


    I bought two H9's and I can use any algorithm I own on any device registered to my account. I'm sure if it were possible to create new algorithms on an H9, those would then be confined to my devices, or I could purchase a license kit (similar to ISRC numbers) and redistribute at a price of my choosing. This all can be done easily using your current infrastructure and possible blockchain for better security.


    This decision will be made for you sooner or later, as someone else will figure out your IP, reverse engineer it, and make their own profiler, and then also (wisely) implement DRM. Which one do you think will be embraced by amp and speaker manufacturers? The one with DRM and license agreements, or the one without? It's advantageous for them to do so. They can hire profiling teams to profile their designs and sell them in bundles. Selling profiles is way cheaper than manufacturing hardware. They can scale back production, increase profits have officially licensed dialed profiles delivered direct to the consumer via download. (And for what it's worth reduce their carbon footprint in the process)


    BY THE WAY when someone steals your IP-stealing IP, and puts you behind the 8 ball, that's called Karma. I wouldn't be surprised if that ends of being the name of the machine.


    Don't lag behind on this. For the record I love your tech, but for this one issue. And I won't share my profiles of my amp designs for free, to be easily redistributed again; for free. I'm not alone in this. Musicians are already being stolen from daily. Don't you think it is more honorable to work in concert with amp makers rather than use the "guns don't kill people, people kill people" defense? "Kemper Profilers don't steal IP and distribute it, people do."


    Just a suggestion.

    Creator of the Stormhenge Superthump and the DSL MAX mod. Amateur tinkerer, and lifelong tone chaser. Magically broken.

    Gabrielle Graves bassist and producer

  • I hear what you are saying but I’m not sure I agree with the request or the conclusion you reach.


    The whole Kemper ethos seems to have been built on sharing. It is a very European mentality which Americans often struggle to accept. Not everyone wants to maximise profit over social benefits and community development.


    Initially the product was created to profile your own tones and take them on the road or have them available for overdubs at a later date when the original rig had already been stripped down.


    The concept of a user community sharing their rigs follows naturally from their.


    The rise of the commercial profiler seems to have been a somewhat unexpected by product as far as I can make out.


    As Paul mentioned there are literally hundreds of thousands of profiles available already without DRM. These cover almost any amp you could ever think of. Therefore, the need for amp manufacturers to make and sell their own profiles seems negligible. In fact, one of the most underwhelming profile pack I have ever bought was the official DrZ pack. The marketing says that DrZ got fed up hearing profiles of his amps that didn’t sound right and therefore he wanted to make profiles that captured the amps in the way he intended. I am sure they sound great to some people but they aren’t anywhere near my preferred choice. I’m not saying they are bad just pointing out that official profiles from makers aren’t necessarily something of benefit when there are so many great profiles of the same amp already.


    On the DRM front, I have a Two Notes Torpedo Reload and Wall of Sound (I don’t use it much since I got the Kemper) and the constant requirement to revalidate licenses is a real pain in the ass. It is probably one of the factors that stops me using it much these days to be honest.

  • And I won't share my profiles of my amp designs for free, to be easily redistributed again; for free.

    I really couldn't care less ... and in your post I don't see a valid case for DRM either. Many professional profile creators have shown/proven since many years that it's possible to run a business without the hassle (and cost) of DRM. If the current environment isn't a valid one for your personal business plans, search for another business opportunity.

    We're mostly settled with profiles and commercial profile offerings anyway. Hard to imagine the Kemper world looking grey and dull without your DRM'd commercial profiles. ;)

  • BY THE WAY when someone steals your IP-stealing IP, and puts you behind the 8 ball, that's called Karma. I wouldn't be surprised if that ends of being the name of the machine.

    Profiling an amp isn't stealing IP. Nobody owns an exclusive right to a particular kind of sound, thankfully.


    As for the main point, any effort at DRM could surely be circumvented by anyone with a second Kemper.

  • I really couldn't care less ... and in your post I don't see a valid case for DRM either. Many professional profile creators have shown/proven since many years that it's possible to run a business without the hassle (and cost) of DRM. If the current environment isn't a valid one for your personal business plans, search for another business opportunity.

    We're mostly settled with profiles and commercial profile offerings anyway. Hard to imagine the Kemper world looking grey and dull without your DRM'd commercial profiles. ;)

    You're probably right. 8)

    Creator of the Stormhenge Superthump and the DSL MAX mod. Amateur tinkerer, and lifelong tone chaser. Magically broken.

    Gabrielle Graves bassist and producer

  • Apple (and everyone else) abandoned DRM for music downloads ages ago. If they couldn't make it work with those resources at hand? ......forget it. It's never really worked when 3rd-party content is involved anyway.

    The whole DRM question for Kemper ended for me when Dr. Z himself began creating and selling profiles of his own amps.

    Neural DSP's Quad Cortex purports to do something similar to profiling.

    Then what about impulse responses? Different tech entirely, but that's capturing specific speaker/mic combos. The creators literally shout what they're capturing as a sales pitch. Here again - Celestion (among others, I'm sure) has been offering IRs of their own speakers with no DRM for years now.

    The DRM ship sailed and sank ages ago.

    “Without music, life would be a mistake.” - Friedrich Nietzsche

  • And in more recent times we've heard of amp manufacturers trying to implement technology that prevents from profiling. Laughable endeavour. I wouldn't ever buy an amp that comes with its own attempt on DRM, no matter how good it is. I do buy amps, have quite a few very nice ones. But I'm not the one buying an amp, profiling it and then returning it within the common 30 days return policy. I dislike this just as much as I dislike DRM.


    Of course, I can only speak for 3 persons total: me, myself and I. And none of these three would EVER buy an amp with DRM, profiles with DRM or music with DRM. I buy stuff for my own pleasure but also to support those who create good stuff. Those who try to get my money but at the same time try to patronize me have lost my business for sure.


    Do I refuse to accept DRM because I want to share my stuff with others? No! Never done that, never will. I respect others' work just as much as I respect my own work. Good work should get paid if the creator wants to make a living of it. It's hard enough anyway these days. A bit of respect goes a long way. I don't even use or pay for Spotify because they don't pay the artists reasonably. I rather buy their CDs and extend my collection of 8,000 CDs.


    Just my 2 cents, cheers

  • There are over 100 Tower Records locations still active and thriving in Japan, but nowhere else on earth. I think one needs to ask why that is?


    Why, culturally, we're so ready to accept "free" as a business model for art, but for everything else our capitalist ire is instantly raised - straight up - at the mere thought of such a ludicrous model being applied to any other facet of commerce. Even when Lars tried to save us all from ourselves, he was demonized. Why do we as creatives fight so hard to perpetuate systems that work against our own best interests?


    Just food for thought.

    Creator of the Stormhenge Superthump and the DSL MAX mod. Amateur tinkerer, and lifelong tone chaser. Magically broken.

    Gabrielle Graves bassist and producer

  • Why, culturally, we're so ready to accept "free" as a business model for art

    None of the people in this thread are like that, as far as I can tell.


    Why do we as creatives fight so hard to perpetuate systems that work against our own best interests?

    The day you come to a venue with a rented Profiler and you want to put your DRM'd profiles for the gig, you'll think again about who works against whom ... just as a quick example. There's your view what you feel you need to protect ... and then there's the view of all the others and what they want/need to protect. DRM has proven to be a huge PITA when it comes to creativity, flexibility and practicality. Those who understand that might go to bed thinking they missed out on dollars ... but in reality there's still more than enough people out there willing to pay IF they don't get punished as soon as they become your customers.


    Just as an example for the latter:

    Maybe you know Fabfilter, a company that produces some of the greatest and most praised audio plugins on this planet. They don't have iLok, eLicenser or online activation. Nothing like that at all. You get your license keys and nobody/nothing will stop you from installing the plugins on as many machines as you want. And guess what ... people LOVE their plugins and happily pay for them. These guys certainly don't depend on social welfare. If it works for them, you're not more special than they are, neither am I. Make sure that your product is great and forget about DRM.

  • Hi, stormhenge.


    Is this your article?

    https://www.tonegoddess.com/si…ent-you-walk-in-the-venue


    I took one of the pictures (and hold the copyright to said picture) that appears on that page.


    Food for thought.


    You've made your request for DRM and made your case in a community of people who have subscribed (with their feet and their money), to a model of sharing. This is evidenced by the Rig Exchange where Kemper users create and share Profiles for free. This community thrives on people sharing information, tips, tricks, and practical use-cases and sometimes music, for free.


    Perhaps, at least in this instance, you are tilting at windmills.


    Interestingly, I searched Rig Exchange, but could not find any mention of "Stormhenge" or "Superthump".


    Food for thought.

  • Interestingly, I searched Rig Exchange, but could not find any mention of "Stormhenge" or "Superthump".


    Food for thought.

    and you won't... until there's DRM


    lemme know which picture is yours along with your copyright notice, and gladly I'll remove it.

    Creator of the Stormhenge Superthump and the DSL MAX mod. Amateur tinkerer, and lifelong tone chaser. Magically broken.

    Gabrielle Graves bassist and producer

  • and you won't... until there's DRM


    lemme know which picture is yours along with your copyright notice, and gladly I'll remove it.

    Copyright vests in the creator when the art is created. The picture appears on your home page immediately above the caption, "Nightmare Venues".


    It also appears below the text "Sometimes, not often, but sometimes.... The PA speakers are mounted on the walls, and either pointing at the stage from off to your right and/or left, or even better they're BEHIND YOU. " on the Nightmare Venues page. Interestingly, the picture does not depict the situation you described in the text.


    You don't have permission to use that image. Please remove it from both locations.


    Thank you,

    ST

  • This one? And of course you have proof? I can't just go around altering my posts for just anyone who simply makes a claim.


    Seems ironic to make a claim of IP ownership in the midst of an IP ownership discussion. One in which I seem to be alone in defending your right to do exactly this. This Digital Rights Management of "your" image. Please use proper channels. I'm sure you know what those are. Let's see how long that takes, and how effective it is. I mean this image had to have been online somewhere, right? It's not like I stole it off your hard drive and uploaded it. How did I get it? Why was it online, out there just floating around the web - free for anyone to view, grab, use? How did it get there? What was it's original intention? What is it worth to you? You can of course see where this is going right?

    Creator of the Stormhenge Superthump and the DSL MAX mod. Amateur tinkerer, and lifelong tone chaser. Magically broken.

    Gabrielle Graves bassist and producer

  • Look I paid the same admission price as everyone else. It took me months to pay off my Kemper. I love it. It's great tech, it simplifies my life. It allowed me to salvage a broken Ampeg of mine that had an a amazing and unique sound, but kept cutting out live, and turn it into a profile that I use for everything.


    The amp was fixed and it sounded like every other one of it's kind, so I told the tech to put it back the way it was. Because that was "my sound" it was unique. People would come up after shows and say, "I have that exact same amp. And it doesn't sound like that! How are you doing this?" And I'd shrug and say, "I don't know. I'm not doing anything. That's just how it sounds." And so it is now back to it's non-functional state, but the pre-amp works fine out of the DI, so I profiled it. And now I have my unique sound again, in a form factor that fits into a backpack and saves me using all of my pedals except for one.


    So I'm not vilifying Kemper users, or Kemper for their tech. I love this tech. But it is also operating in a gray area, and is allowing people to capture something unique and make it available for use worldwide, for free, or even for a fee. But there's literally nothing stopping me from taking my purchased ReampZone profiles and just emailing them to somebody for free, Or making them downloadable. For free. I could literally take all of their excellent hard work and distribute it for free under the current model if I were that kind of a person. And, there is no recourse for them. Also, no recourse for the little guys, like Suhr, Fortin, etc. People who put years of R&D, insight, cleverness, and love into creating something special, and someone taking and distributing a copy of that thing for free. Because, it's not currently illegal. Immoral, perhaps, but.not illegal.


    I think we owe it to ourselves, and to the people who have created the amps that we love, to make a little more effort towards protecting that, which with love, they have made available for us all.

    Creator of the Stormhenge Superthump and the DSL MAX mod. Amateur tinkerer, and lifelong tone chaser. Magically broken.

    Gabrielle Graves bassist and producer

  • Hi, stormhenge.


    I don't have to prove copyright because copyright vests in the creator when the art is created.


    I know I took the photo, and I know you didn't. I know you didn't obtain permission from the copyright holder to use it. If you had taken the picture or asked for permission to use it, you would know that the loudspeaker in the picture is mounted in front of the stage facing the audience - not as you said, "Sometimes, not often, but sometimes.... The PA speakers are mounted on the walls, and either pointing at the stage from off to your right and/or left, or even better they're BEHIND YOU. " on the Nightmare Venues page


    The picture does not depict the situation you described. 👈 This alone should be reason enough to remove it.


    I brought this to light because you seem concerned about protecting intellectual property. The irony is:

    You are advocating for DRM, and you are using my image without permission.

    Related reading: Clean Hands


    I have asked you to remove the picture because you said "lemme know which picture is yours along with your copyright notice, and gladly I'll remove it."


    I made it clear which picture I meant, and you chose to post it here and use again, without permission.


    I gave you the information, and you and I both know a copyright notice is not required. And we both know that just because a picture is on the web does not mean that it is free for anyone to grab and use. Putting something on the web does not put it into the public domain.




  • ...and there's a system in place to handle it. I suggest you use it. And please point me in the direction of the system that exists for those who've had their amps profiled and distributed without their permission, while you're at it.

    Creator of the Stormhenge Superthump and the DSL MAX mod. Amateur tinkerer, and lifelong tone chaser. Magically broken.

    Gabrielle Graves bassist and producer

    Edited once, last by stormhenge ().

  • Hi, stormhenge,


    Back to the topic of your thread: I read what you wrote in your original post and subsequent replies.


    Thank you for the thought-provoking ideas.


    You said, "Food for thought", and I looked up Tower Records and researched your reference to Lars. And I was curious about the person who raised these points and searched the web for "Stormhenge Superthump" in your signature line because I wanted to get to know the author of these ideas better. That's how I came upon Tonegoddess.com and subsequently did a search for Shian Storm. This led to some further reading and a sense of the integrity you bring to your art.


    I was surprised to find my picture on your website mainly because the picture does not depict the situation you described. 👈 This alone should be reason enough to remove it. That's not a gray area.


    Anyway, thanks for the interesting thought exercise.


    All the best,

    ST