Digital Rights Management

  • Dr Z. started making his own because the public ones were not representative of his product. A lot of what is out there lives in this arena.

    For me that is a poor example as the DrZ official pack is one of the least inspiring pack I have ever purchased. There are plenty of great profiles of DrZ amps but for me personally none of them are in the official pack.


    The market is completely oversaturated.

    No argument from me here 😁 unfortunately a lot of the rubbish os from commercial profilers who would be able to implement DRM signed profiles in the proposed closed ecosystem. I still can’t see any argument to add DRM to the KPA.

  • unfortunately a lot of the rubbish os from commercial profilers who would be able to implement DRM signed profiles in the proposed closed ecosystem. I still can’t see any argument to add DRM to the KPA.

    You'd still have those who could pay a license fee to the manufacture for the right to profile and distribute, so you'd still get the same paid products you already have, but the manufacturer is still retaining value, and is still incentivized to keep innovating.

    Creator of the Stormhenge Superthump and the DSL MAX mod. Amateur tinkerer, and lifelong tone chaser. Magically broken.

    Gabrielle Graves bassist and producer

  • I wasn't trying to devalue you at all, you are a human being with immense innate value. I did not attempt to qualify your capabilities positively or negatively because you are trans. And I haven't made any point to suggest that cisgendered women aren't salient or capable, where did you get that? I don't think that and don't take kindly to you suggesting as such. I love the women in my family and they're a salient capable bunch, and I have no problem believing yours are the same.


    For the same reason you see the quality of trans as irrelevant, I don't see why it should be "more inspiring to see that its a woman, holding her own against a bunch of men." That's the reason I made my cheeky comment, not to devalue you or women.


    We both agree it's a giant rabbit hole no one wants to venture down, at least not here. Hopefully that clears things up for you, cheers.

    while your arguments about features, price etc are all valid and appropriate to this discussion, the above comment has no place here at all.

    Eh, I see you liked the "wow it's refreshing and inspiring to see a woman hold her own" comment. I think that comment has no place here.

  • Eh, I see you liked the "wow it's refreshing and inspiring to see a woman hold her own" comment. I think that comment has no place here.

    the difference was that was a positive comment while your appeared to be a negative and (in your own words cheeky) comment. However, your mrecent explanation paints a different picture.


    i was also liking this statement which is totally independent of any gender implications so my comment does have a place here 😉

    I do admire style, finesse, and the ability to remain unflappable in the face of multiple points of opposition.

  • You'd still have those who could pay a license fee to the manufacture for the right to profile and distribute, so you'd still get the same paid products you already have, but the manufacturer is still retaining value, and is still incentivized to keep innovating.

    I fully appreciate that there could be a license agreement but I still don’t see any benefit to users or Kemper so I can’t see any reason whatsoever why Kemper would want to go down that route. It just looks like a lose/lose deal to me.

  • I fully appreciate that there could be a license agreement but I still don’t see any benefit to users or Kemper so I can’t see any reason whatsoever why Kemper would want to go down that route. It just looks like a lose/lose deal to me.

    I understand your point. I disagree. but I understand.



    Am I completely off base to say that of the participants in this thread I'm the only one who has built a guitar/bass amp? (Ordering a kit and assembling one counts too. I'll allow it... lol)

    Creator of the Stormhenge Superthump and the DSL MAX mod. Amateur tinkerer, and lifelong tone chaser. Magically broken.

    Gabrielle Graves bassist and producer

  • It's an eye-opening experience. Just that feeling when you flip the switch and it actually makes noise. Then to learn how little changes in the circuit affect the tone, and then the long journey to figure out just what it takes to make it sound exactly the way you want. It's as enlightening, and challenging, and never ending as learning to play the guitar itself.

    Creator of the Stormhenge Superthump and the DSL MAX mod. Amateur tinkerer, and lifelong tone chaser. Magically broken.

    Gabrielle Graves bassist and producer

  • Am I completely off base to say that of the participants in this thread I'm the only one who has built a guitar/bass amp? (Ordering a kit and assembling one counts too. I'll allow it... lol)

    I've done amp repairs, and built effects from scratch - not from kits (including some of my own design). But, there are others on the forum who have built their own amps. They may just not want to contribute to this thread. A lot was said in the early days of the forum.

  • I guess my big question is: Why would anyone pay a licensing fee from a manufacturer to profile their amps when they can currently profile that same amp for free, tweak the name a little, and sell it with zero overhead from some other company taking a slice?


    Amp innovations are few and far between these days. They add technology to simplify the recording process, like direct outs, IR's etc, but there hasn't been a genuinely "innovative" circuit in a long time. It's all the same diodes, caps and transistors etc. just lined up in different orders. Shall we get started talking about how two of the same model amps won't even sound the same? Licensing and DRM for "official" versions won't change the fact that the profiled amp, one owned by Joe Schmoe and the other by Bob Schmob, mic'ed the same, same settings, will still sound different.


    Will the manufacturers profile their amps with pedals in front? Will they offer licensing deals to the pedal manufacturers as well? How will they divide the cut? Speaker manufacturers onboard as well? What about the cables? I only want my profiles with Mogami cables if I'm paying a premium.


    I can agree with a profiler wanting to get paid for their efforts profiling amps, and I've found several excellent free ones as well. I'm actually astonished you wouldn't sell your profiles if they offer something better than what's out there. If you've built a better mousetrap, why not profit from it? If it's that good, you will make money, as most folks on this forum are always willing to pay for a quality product. They already forked out the money for a Kemper, so what's a few more dollars for your amp profile? You're currently leaving money on the table. I'm sure you'd have some unscrupulous folks that would share it with close friends, but making SOME money by putting it out there has to be better than making NO money sitting on your hands waiting for a system that, frankly, isn't going to happen in this ecosystem.


    Adding an extra middleman to take a cut when there are multiple manufacturers of different products currently NOT having to pay for the rights to call an amp by it's real name seems cumbersome and foolish. This adds an extra layer of complexity and raises costs to the consumer. Neither of which is a positive.

  • You make several excellent points. Following coffee and contemplation, I will maybe, possibly address them...lol

    Creator of the Stormhenge Superthump and the DSL MAX mod. Amateur tinkerer, and lifelong tone chaser. Magically broken.

    Gabrielle Graves bassist and producer

  • I guess my big question is: Why would anyone pay a licensing fee from a manufacturer to profile their amps when they can currently profile that same amp for free, tweak the name a little, and sell it with zero overhead from some other company taking a slice?

    I'll answer these in chunks... This one is simple; because in a closed system, like the one that's coming (possibly more), you will have no choice. If you wish to profit from profiling said amp, and selling in said store on said platform, you will have no other choice.


    I'll get to the other points later. :)

    Creator of the Stormhenge Superthump and the DSL MAX mod. Amateur tinkerer, and lifelong tone chaser. Magically broken.

    Gabrielle Graves bassist and producer

  • because in a closed system ... you will have no choice

    That's the safest ticket to failure right from the start.

    Do you have a remote idea how many studios have (and use) Kemper Profilers and how easy and convenient it is to profile a band's guitar/bass amps and just hand them a pen drive with their own custom profiles so they can use them whenever and wherever they want?

    Do you seriously think someone would sacrifice this so someone like you can dream of enourmous profile sales? Gimme a break. ;)

    No one wants DRM apart from you!

    I'm pretty sure that there exist just as many (or more) custom made profiles as there are commercial profiles publicly available. These custom profiles of course get paid for but never see the public "market".


    Let me tell you, I run 2 studios, I own 4 Profilers, I do custom profiles for our studio clients, for myself, for friends, whatever. If Kemper decided to introduce "closed system" DRM (which I'm sure they won't even consider), I would sell all my Profilers the very same day, guaranteed. And I wouldn't be the only one.

  • You know what? Nevermind.


    I would only ever presume that both physical and profile sales of my creations would be modest at best. Nobody is getting into profiling as a primary source of income, or to get rich, there's just not enough money in it even if you're profiling multiple amps, let alone just one. I'm not an idiot.


    I understand the value of the Kemper as a tool. I really do. I use it all the time and I love it. But I'm talking bigger picture. And I can see I'm alone in my view point. I'd like to try and prolong the life of a certain creative avenue that whether we realize it or not, we all value quite a lot. But it seems only a handful can see how this all ultimately ends if we continue in this direction. And that's just fucking depressing.

    Creator of the Stormhenge Superthump and the DSL MAX mod. Amateur tinkerer, and lifelong tone chaser. Magically broken.

    Gabrielle Graves bassist and producer

  • In my opinion clock is ticking for "analog" and quite soon "digital" will be the only viable option for most musician (the gap in quality is almost bridged, and prices of digital will be only going down). Analog amps will join other technologies, like vinyl plates, which are reserved for collectors or just someone who would like to add some "vintage vibe" the their lives. This evolution can't be stopped, and happens very often in the world. DRM won't save it. Of course it is sad for vendors of technologies which are in decline but that's how things are progressing.


    Kemper started this evolution by offering first true "tone replicating" machine, but it is clear that in a few year all major vendors will have something similar or modeling technology which will be perfectly capable of simulating or even synthesizing arbitrary circuit (Fractal is leading here, but in context of this discussion I don't see major difference between modeling and profiling). If not Kemper - someone else would do it sooner of later. I think the only sane way of rewarding amp manufacturers for their effort is to buy profiles directly from them (or maybe some merchandise). Sadly very few of them opt into this and sell profiles (Victory Amps is one good example - I bought their packs and enjoy them every day - Kraken, V40). Most people in this world are good and I'm sure wouldn't mind spending a few bucks to support their favorite amp builders, if they had opportunity. Why most amp makers don't sell their profiles?

  • i have really enjoyed this thread and respect all the opinions in it. I have been trying to think through stormhenge ’s argument that it is a foregone conclusion that a closed ecosystem DRM world will kill Kemper etc. No matter how I play it out I just can’t find a scenario where her doomsday scenario happens. Only time will tell but I certainly hope the DRM model isn’t the future.