Too low IQ for too much EQ? (SOLVED)

  • The sound isn't bad at all - not a million miles away. He has a fair amount more power amp gain in his sound. It has a loose bottom end which starts to come apart when he digs in. Also, you should explore the Kemper's spring reverb for that sound.

  • Here I tried it again after turning the compressor off: Same thing, no compressor

    tbh i don't think the actual sound is the problem at all. it sounds like a pretty good base sound and as others have said i don't really hear anything 'wrong' about it. not sure how long you have been practicing this exact lick or how long you've been playing on that rig preset. if getting as close as possible to the sound of the supro guy in the video is important to you i would stick with it for a while: practice that lick until it becomes second nature. Once you got the lick down completely and can close your eyes and play it while concentrating (or deconcentrating .. opininons vary on that one) on the FEEL start tweaking the rig settings. record everything so you can analyze the progress and differences in settings with a fresh mind and ear. nothing is ever plug and play, every musician and engineer has their personal bag of tricks. but in the end it really is all in the hands ;)


    once you have a good recording put it in a mastering suite/plugin and add some post processing, just some gentle old school analog style mastering, maybe a tad of convolution reverb to add some room depth.


    also not sure about this video but do you have the exact same guitar as he does? do you know if he has his volume or tone rolled off ? is he using a Kemper and the exact same preset as you ? it wouldn't surprise me if he was playing on a Supro amp recorded with a killer mic (or two) through a high end pre and someone who knows his stuff about mastering tweaked it all in the end, and the guy is a really good player .. so really not surprising his version sounds 'better' :) but i'm pretty sure if he had a Kemper with your preset and the same post processing he'd sound extremely close and you wouldn't be able to tell the difference in a blind test.




    -------------------------------------------------------

    free you mind and your ass will follow …

    Edited 5 times, last by stickman ().

  • also not sure about this video but do you have the exact same guitar as he does?

    Yes, same guitar.

    in the end it really is all in the hands ;)

    I don't disagree. But my question wasn't about the lick or technique but about the Kemper not behaving like the real amp in this case. As has been pointed out before, there's a loser bottom end. These kind of things are clearly audible for me. I like that the amp in the video sounds like it's a real thing about to break down. Maybe I miss the little technical imperfections of the real amp that make it sound so lovely to me?


    do you know if he has his volume or tone rolled off ?

    He is playing with this a lot. My theory is that the amp is recorded at a higher gain stage than the highest gain version of my profiles and he rolls the volume down. The Kemper doesn't behave in the same way as the real amp. When I roll the volume down the EQ changes in a different way than with the real thing. So this kind of behavior of the real amp seems to be hard to copy.


    is he using a Kemper and the exact same preset as you ?

    Since this is a demo of the amp I doubt they'd go that route. At the end of the video they are also quite clear about their setup. But yes, nobody can guarantee that they didn't work on it a little in post. If I'd try to sell that amp, I'd do the same.


    the rice is done

    Hope you enjoyed it ;)

  • In the Supro video there's a lot of saturation in his tone, he's using the volume knob and a real feather touch to clean it up. If you plugged straight in to that setup, you'd possibly find it a bit rude sounding, he's really taming the rudeness with his fingers. Don't discount the fact that picking dynamics play a huge part in regards to your overall sound, especially with edge of breakup sounds. Also listen to the very last note he plays to get an idea of how much reverb he's using.


    P.S. Nice work on the Strokes song👍

  • the Kemper not behaving like the real amp in this case


    there's a loser bottom end. These kind of things are clearly audible for me

    well a profiler rig is only one snapshot of the profiled amps settings, that's why most good commercial profilers have several versions of the same amp profiled at different settings. you can extend the range of the 'snapshot' a bit with the K's settings but you'll still be navigating around the same ballpark settings. With several profiles you can extend that range a bit but you'll never have a clone that provides a 1:1 settings equivalence (what i mean is the K's gain/master/b/m/t/presence settings will never behave exactly like the amp). so unless your supro profile was profiled with the exact same settings than he's playing on it can be a bit of a goose chase to emulate a sound of another player recorded in a completely different setting.

    my question wasn't about the lick or technique but about the Kemper not behaving like the real amp in this case

    yes i got that but what makes the amp behave like this :/ everything is related i think.


    i'm really not trying to say you're not right .. you feel and hear what you feel and hear i don't doubt that. i just doubt that with all the amazing profiles out there and with so many professional guitar gods and tone nerds out ther who are completely happy with the K over real amps there aren't some combinations that will hit your spot at one point. maybe it just takes a bit more time and experimenting for you to find what you're lookin for and that's why i was suggestiong to stick with one lick and sound and work that to death because it makes it easier to understand how the K behaves vs an amp.


    btw have you ever tried the Kemper with a Kabinet ? i know of some people who also didn't fall in love with the K right away like i did but when they tried it on the Kabinet they saw the light.




    -------------------------------------------------------

    free you mind and your ass will follow …

    Edited once, last by stickman ().

  • my 2 cnts:


    Dynamics, both player & amp - there's a lot more dynamics in the reference supro. But not just amp, it is even more the playing.


    Amp setup - the real thing is set up cooking. it almost goes to fuzz land with guitar maxed. Many studio players have said using this trick to get rich harmonic clean sounds, but . Rev' the amp, but turn the guitar volume down where playing softly it's seemingly clean (but rich in harmonics) and digging in it breaks, works especially well with non-master volume amp.


    Other - at first glance it looks like there are two amps miced. Mics look like some Royer+MD421 combo. And it sounds like those too where as you profile doesn't. Is there some comments what it is recorded with in the KPA profile?

  • Regarding the Kemper not behaving like an amp when turning your guitar volume down: It is possible this is due to the guitar. The type of pickups, the type of pots, any treble bleed network, and possibly other factors, will affect that.


    Also, this is a great thread. Thank you to all that have contributed.

  • Amp setup - the real thing is set up cooking. it almost goes to fuzz land with guitar maxed. Many studio players have said using this trick to get rich harmonic clean sounds, but . Rev' the amp, but turn the guitar volume down where playing softly it's seemingly clean (but rich in harmonics) and digging in it breaks, works especially well with non-master volume amp.

    i think this is a good example of that technique from Tim Pierce:




    -------------------------------------------------------

    free you mind and your ass will follow …

  • When I roll the volume down the EQ changes in a different way than with the real thing. So this kind of behavior of the real amp seems to be hard to copy.

    Try turning up the Power Sagging on the Amplifier options. That will increase the touch sensitivity for the rig you're using. I'd try it on about 5 and if it helps then adjust it to your taste. This should get you closer to that clean sound when picking lightly.

  • Try turning up the Power Sagging on the Amplifier options. That will increase the touch sensitivity for the rig you're using. I'd try it on about 5 and if it helps then adjust it to your taste. This should get you closer to that clean sound when picking lightly.

    Thank you! Will try this as well as some of the other suggestions here and report back to you guys soon.

    i think this is a good example of that technique from Tim Pierce:

    Good video! I always liked this technique and will devote even more attention to it since it also forces cleaner playing. Good lesson for this old garage rocker here.

  • Somewhere in Tim Pierce's videos he has one where he addresses all of the touch, technique, etc. for this type of tone. And he plays / uses La Grange as an example.


    I just looked quickly and couldn't find it. But spending time looking through his videos will not be a waste of your time. ;)

  • Somewhere in Tim Pierce's videos he has one where he addresses all of the touch, technique, etc. for this type of tone. And he plays / uses La Grange as an example.


    I just looked quickly and couldn't find it. But spending time looking through his videos will not be a waste of your time. ;)


    😉

  • Blimey where to start...


    Just my views:

    1) Your's does sound different but not in a bad way. I actually liked your sound as much if not more. I had this perception that took me years to shake - how can this digital box sound as good as other amps or how come they get a great sound and I can't. Turned out, I can because lots of people told me, i just didn't realise it/believe it

    2) Like all good amps, the KPA is not very forgiving. Same profile and signal chain but a minor change and very different. It responds so well to minute changes but it shows up any differences. Prior to the KPA, I though if a cab had the same speakers, they sounded very similar....wrong!

    3) Don't tone chase from videos - the level of post production is an unknown.

    4) We all know this but 90% is in the hands...

    5) I have a Falcon - very different starting point :)

    6) I firmly believe you have to get used to sounds

    7) Sounds in the room vs in a band context/mix at full chat vs recorded are VERY different

    8) Those iconic guitars we think we love...go and REALLY listen to them. I got a Randy Rhoads pack...sounds really thin and harsh...it was only when I went to compare that....his sound is actually really thin and harsh! Take off the rose tinted specs

    9) All sound is subjective. The amount of profiles that people have told me about and I've tried them and gone...yuk!

    10) KPA is not sonic nirvana, its only the tool to get you there. Like a computer, you need to tell it what you want but its literal so it will then give you that. For me, I wasn;t actually clear on what sounds a really like....

    11) Don't forget to play...even those 2 vids on La Grange, look how different their sounds are....which one is right? I'd say both or neither.... Let's be honest 99% of people don;t really care about the guitar sound, they care what you play. So, I would focus on more getting in the ball park and then being happy so you can play not constantly tweak.