2) It would be a breach of Intercultural property
Hope that makes sense.
Well. Sorta 
Is the physical Kemper necessary?
- b_ryan
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Well. Sorta
Sorry a typo.....intellectual
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Correct. In my experience (20 years of experience of software development), even having access to the code would be difficult. Without that access, very difficult. You can;t realistically analyse machine code and its rarely not presented in that way.
Otherwise:
1) After nearly 10 years on the market someone would have done it
2) It would be a breach of Intercultural property
Hope that makes sense.
It makes a lot of sense. But what I think is, that a lot of companies already has breached that and makes their sounds that way. I doubt that it’s still a mystery ten years in. Someone wrote, that the TH-U can handle Kemper files. If they can handle Kemper files, what’s holding back regarding doing the stuff prior. Namely the profiling? Of course the profiling itself, if it’s that difficult as you imply. But the Quad Neural does something like it. I really can’t wrap my head around the fact, that it’s not a simple task to enter any digital machine and see the codes. But you know more than me in that matter and I appreciate your input and insight.
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It makes a lot of sense. But what I think is, that a lot of companies already has breached that and makes their sounds that way. I doubt that it’s still a mystery ten years in. Someone wrote, that the TH-U can handle Kemper files. If they can handle Kemper files, what’s holding back regarding doing the stuff prior. Namely the profiling? Of course the profiling itself, if it’s that difficult as you imply. But the Quad Neural does something like it. I really can’t wrap my head around the fact, that it’s not a simple task to enter any digital machine and see the codes. But you know more than me in that matter and I appreciate your input and insight.
People and companies will find ways round these issues. The point Im trying to make is...its possible but not easy. Thats it.
Its taken nearly 10 years for another product to replicate the profiling process....partially I suspect becuase other companies are committed to modelling, plus there are some similar functions ( tone matching) that go part way.
I don;t know this for a fact BTW, just using my understandoing of software. As an example, one system in my organisation has been developed over about 8 years..The system has about 10 million lines of code of which you need to understand the construct. To reverse enginner this, even if you could see the code ( which you can;t due to encryption) would take at least as long to reverse engineer to then redevelop for a different platform ( operating system, hardware etc). It is to Kemper benefit to tie it to the hardware as well BTW
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Yet again I try to explain....I suspect that people don’t wanna read the whole thing. I get that. But it seems like either people don’t read the whole topic or I am very very bad at trying to explain in detail, what I mean. I do believe that I have tried
I do NOT mean the Kemper itself. I mean the technology behind profiling. Another company applying this way of achieving its sounds and then putting it out there to the masses for them to go crazy. Do they need this particular circuitry to run a profile achieved the Kemper way. Is that physical unit absolutely fundamental for running THIS data? I hardly believe it.
Ha! Well...I'd personally need a dedicated break out box with amp like latency for that concept to be useful. I've tried computer plugs and they've left me wanting. I want to perform and record with amps or dedicated modelers/profilers with very low latency. I guess you could probably create tech that could analyze amp data like the Kemper, as a SW program on a computer, but then are you playing it back on a generic sound card as well? I feel like that would be disconnected unless the supplier had a closed ecosystem and some sort of dedicated HW to make it feel immediate. JMHO
The other thing...the trend with these suppliers seems to be to offer devices that can go live, jam at home, or record all at different footprints and price points. Not sure how big of a market there would be for a SW only profiler that has to be on a computer. Then again, I couldn't imagine bringing my laptop to a gig and "playing it" that way but I know people do it. -
Its taken nearly 10 years for another product to replicate the profiling process....partially I suspect becuase other companies are committed to modelling, plus there are some similar functions ( tone matching) that go part way.
How can we be sure about this? I would think that when it first came out many companies hired (or engaged their already employed) engineers to what is going on with the profiling sounds and how it works. To my relatively tiny knowledge in this field I would think that engineers rather quickly would state, that these are EQ sweeps, white noise etc and would then have a good idea what it is and how it works and then create something similar. What I’m saying is, while you state, that it’s been ten years and the code hasn’t been broken, I say that some companies already experimented with this and put out to the people in a new package without the profiling part. Just the sound. But again....I have no particular knowledge to state this. To me it’s just logical, that others try to cash in, when they see something new which achieves great results. Why then keep doing it the old fashioned way?
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I guess you could probably create tech that could analyze amp data like the Kemper, as a SW program on a computer, but then are you playing it back on a generic sound card as well?
Not sure how big of a market there would be for a SW only profiler that has to be on a computer. Then again, I couldn't imagine bringing my laptop to a gig and "playing it" that way but I know people do it.I’m not talking about a SW solution to profiling. I’m only talking about companies using the Kemper way of achieving the sound through profiling or their take on it anyway. And then creating an amp sim out of that. Exactly like the Kemper. You might make a snapshot of a specific setup, but you do get to fiddle around with everything afterwards like an amp sim.
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I’m not talking about a SW solution to profiling. I’m only talking about companies using the Kemper way of achieving the sound through profiling or their take on it anyway. And then creating an amp sim out of that. Exactly like the Kemper. You might make a snapshot of a specific setup, but you do get to fiddle around with everything afterwards like an amp sim.
OK...I think I'm tracking better. I looked from your OP and thought you meant something that could happen on a computer. You meant just a technique that could happen on a device OR computer?
I think what you're saying is whether Kemper profiling method is HW dependent i.e. something in the physical audio circuit is custom. My guess is no...the profiling uses standard audio components/processing and the profiling magic comes from the FW on the box.
Ultimately are you getting at the notion you'd love to see a profiling method that has an accurate way of making the snapshot behave more like a real amp in terms of adjustment?
Hopefully I got closer to understanding. If not, I will eject! -
Hopefully I got closer to understanding. If not, I will eject!I highly doubt that
I seem to have some work to be done regarding clarifying my points and getting people to understand my twisted head 
....so good luck 
To be more precise. I only focus on the end result. Not how they get there and if they use HW or SW. Just the result. -
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I've been driving Corvettes for a few generations. My first one was a C5 (Corvette generation 5), a 90-something model. No computer screens, just knobs and levers. The C6 series came out and had been updated to a touch screen. The first thing that happens when the car starts is a big "Don't Sue Us" warning saying you shouldn't be screwing around with the touch screen while driving. The heating and air conditioning had no knobs. Just the touch screen. My comment to the salesperson as I was taking the test drive is unprintable.
Needless to say, I didn't buy the C6 and just drove the socks off the C5. Eventually, after the C7 had been out a couple of years, I gave it a look. Touch screen as expected, but the lights, heating, air conditioning, seat heaters / fans, etc. all had physical knobs and buttons that you could operate by feel. It supports Car Play, so I plug my iPhone in and that's my stereo, but I use voice commands only (when Siri can understand my southern accent). It also has text messages and other such things on the touch screen. I ignore them all.
When I'm driving, if I can't do it by feel, it doesn't get done. Like you, I see an analogy to guitars and computers. If I can stomp on a button or press a pedal, groovy. But the last thing I want to do on a gig is screw with a computer screen. I'm okay with Rig Manager (and think the new editor is pretty cool) when I'm in the studio because I'm in "computer mode" anyway. But I love the fact that I can operate the Kemper by the front panel or remote without the Microsoft logo anywhere in sight.
By the way, you should ditch the Tesla and buy a Vette. It ain't electric, but it's way more fun.
****Amen to the above. My Kemper and my C7 Corvette are my two physical object favorites in a digital world!
as for the original question, the STL tone hub plug in claims to reproduce the sound of Kemper profiles. From what I read on the website they basically insinuate that they take preset packs from third-party artists and convert them to the tone hub format essentially giving you a software kemper for playback purposes. Michael Brett even has packs on his website for the tone hub that are derived from his 2020 pack he states. -
Its taken nearly 10 years for another product to replicate the profiling process....partially I suspect becuase other companies are committed to modelling, plus there are some similar functions ( tone matching) that go part way.
Here is my take on what's happening. The profiling process as implemented in KPAs is a patented process. This means that how it's done is not a secret, it's public knowledge, but also means (in theory) that other companies can't use the same technique without some type of licensing agreement in place. Neural DSP get around this by using a different technique to achieve a similar goal. They have taken a machine learning approach and have (roughly) documented their process publicly also. Since their technique is based on machine learning they can do this without infringing on Christoph's patent.
