Ideas for a Kemper 2 in the future.

  • wonder if they could do something really interesting like an ability to take 2 profiles and algorithmically merge them together to create a unique dynamic and sound structure that doesn't and can't exist in the real world. Like merging a revv and a marshall with characistics of both but doesn't really sound like either type of thing? I dunno, just got back from the gym, good morning from Nashville lol

  • What about my arguments don’t you understand? I don’t care about the value of my Kemper. I’ve never stated that. I only focus on the best product possible with the most useful solutions. I realize that value will drop as soon as a successor is revealed. I’m not born yesterday 🙂 If revealed of course. My Kemper has lasted 10 years or so. It has already exceeded all expectations. I don’t understand what you don’t understand. But I agree that he has launched a pretty well thought out device.

    And I don’t really think that you should question the business strategy of Line 6. I’m pretty sure that they are doing quite well 😉 Their products last pretty long and for a fraction of the price of the Kemper and others and the new Helix sounds quite good.

    Regarding needs. It’s a difficult road to travel. They’ve launched their products. But do they meet everyone’s needs? I would think that people that own their products somehow feel, that their needs a close to being met. But there are still stuff, one could dream of. A USB connection to carry sound first of all. Furthermore they are “falling behind” their competitors regarding possibilities. The sound is only ONE perspective to consider and it still sounds killer, but possibilities, connections etc are other perspectives to consider, when the competitors devices sounds killer as well. Connections and possibilities the Kemper will never be able to in its format, as it is now. I only think that it’s too bad, because it’s a great company and I cannot imagine ANYONE ever considering to complain if they present a MKII after a product, that has lasted this long. That would be very weird. I could see a lot of stuff, where they could offer new and great possibilities. Perhaps not a MKII. But rather just an upgraded version of the first one, but with the same profiling tech as a base. It might not get better. But possibilities and connections definitely could.




  • You are right, you didn't talk about device value but it's a factor in the equation.

    Every one has not the luck to have bought a Kemper 10 years ago and use it intensively. The familly is built on the same platform and if they change one of them, they will automatically have to make evolve all devices. Some will be disappointed.

    I know that a day will come for a Kemper 2 but IMO, it can wait a while.

    I talk about Line 6 cause they changed their strategy with the Helix familly, it's easy to say today that there's no matter for them but they made a risky bet. They were not in this range price before. Helix Floor and Rack was sold three times more expensive than the HD500X. And there was a turn over before with their devices....I bought a Firehawk, don't need to say how i loose in one year. With the Helix LT, it was not the same case...And it lasts (as Kemper does...)

    I switched from Helix to Kemper Stage and i know i've lost some possibilities, but i'm really not disappointed at all.

    There isn't this beautifull screen, less connections, no integrated soundcard, no parrallel paths, etc....I knew it since the first day i bought the Stage, but this sound, WOW.... simple rig ; it's enough for me... It's already old looking since day one but i really love this device. And there have been a lot of improvments during all the 4 past years ; delay/reverbs, Kones and the possiblity to use non-mic'ed simulations with imprints, Rig manager that can control Rig's settings, ios app with wifi... I didn't imagine it was possible to.

    In fact, i ask myself what would make me buy the K2, i already know what i've lost and i don't need them so if they are in addition in the next Kemper, it won't be a reason to buy it for me.... I don't think they are falling behind competitors too....

  • I don’t really believe that value, should be a factor. You are talking about a product, which was launched a decade ago. That you are late to the party does not make this a new product 10 years in. So if someone buys it in 10 years and says the same? Then it’s 20 years old….but new to the owner. Still doesn’t justify customers bringing value into the equation. It’s an old product.


    That YOU have experienced failures from Line6 products does not make it universal. I’ve had a lot of Line6 devices and my friends too….and they still do. None with failures. So universally it must mean, that they are great. They sound great as well. My Kemper has had failure. That must mean that it’s crap, then. No, all tech stuff experience failures. Including the high end stuff. And no. I don’t see Line6 making risky bets. I see them having smart people analyzing the market and that they know, what they do. They’ve been found this for several decades now. I bought my first line6 product 20 years ago….yes….I’m that old 🙂. They’ve been great. Sound wise they were great at the time.

    I could really see a lot of cool stuff in an updated Kemper. To me it doesn’t have to be a MKII. I think Kemper already explained that the profiling can’t be improved. It might be true. I don’t know. But with all the new CPU’s and stuff today….why now throw a couple of separate and identical circuits inside a Kemper Makeover? 2 circuits that can profile at the same time. More mic inputs for the profiling procedure and the possibility to mix different profiles endlessly. Instead we only have 1 profile done with 1 mic today. Unless it’s done in a studio with a mixing desk and stuff. That would take it closer to a real recording scenario. Who mics up a guitar cab with only 1 mic today? I’ve not done so in over 20 years 🤣 Always 2 mics to blend.


    Imagine the Kemper being able to merge profiles together. Then you could just do endless profiles with 1 mic and mix the level between them until you get a satisfying result. How awesome would that be? Pretty awesome. I don’t need it as I don’t record professional, but as it is now I would probably send the tracks to be re-amped through real amps in a studio to get a more nuanced flavor on the guitar.

  • mixing two or more mic signals hardly requires a studio, or studio-level equipment - quite a number of entry level mixers can do that - plus EQ.

    True. But to me it seems like there is a big difference regarding sound quality between the profiling in packs done in a studio and people fiddling around at home. I, myself, have never been able to make a good profile and therefore gave that up many years ago and mainly use it with others profiles. But in theory, yes. You can do it with the worst possible mixer in the world. I mean….when Kemper puts out a new pack of profiles….are they done in a studio environment or at home at someone from the company or the guys apartment? I’m pretty sure that the environment consists of nice mics, nice preamps, nice rooms, nice monitors etc. If that’s not all important to get the “pro” sound, why not just make it in the garage for all of us? 😉


    I love this unit…but it can be even better with a “few” tweaks. 10 years in now and of course people look at the competitors units and dream of some of it. I’m usually on to the next thing quite fast. I’ve not gone away yet, so you’re still doing a lot of things right (imho), but that doesn’t mean, that I cannot wish for more of what I love.


    Look at this way. We have all these wishes and thoughts, because we love the Kemper and the company. Not the opposite. It’s a good thing that we care and want to be loyal. But loyalty only gets you so far. At sometime loyalty isn’t enough anymore. We are consumers and musicians first and foremost.

  • I can easily see Kemper releasing an upgraded version of the current architecture with little to no sonic improvements (which it arguably doesn't need). As you point out, connectivity, look-and-feel, and ascetic improvements alone would justify the change. Additionally, the new unit could upgrade the aging chips to something that could last another 10 years.


    I am one of those lucky individuals that got my Kemper pretty early (2013) and have enjoyed a long and useful life with it. It doesn't really matter to me that a new version would lower the resale price of my existing unit since I really have no intention of selling it :) If anything, I intend to purchase a Kone in the future to jam with friends with (I normally go straight into the PA).

  • But to me it seems like there is a big difference regarding sound quality between the profiling in packs done in a studio and people fiddling around at home.

    there are quite a few very highly regarded PROFILEs that were made by 'people fiddling around at home'


    mic placement is probably the most important factor and the people that know how to place a mic are the ones that have been doing this for years, so it's not really that surprising that they often do have access to / work at a studio


    but the number of great PROFILEs listed in this thread What are "your" hidden gems in Rig Exchange? Post your best finds here ... also shows that while it doesn't hurt to make PROFILEs in a studio, it's not exactly necessary if you know what you are doing.

  • Indeed, and further to Don's point:


    The Kemper removes time-based info so even if you Profile in a less-than-stellar room, the modes / resonances that would otherwise give the result a "boxy / cheap" quality just aren't there.


    IOW, as Don suggests, the mic you use and its placement is king.

  • Of course mic placement is paramount and as I said…. of course you can do it home…. and of course some people are better at it than others. All valid points. But they are not the only factor. Yes….the good technicians tend to work at a studio or having a studio at their disposal. I’ll also admit that many profiles especially in the beginning were good and these were mostly done at home….I presume. But I really had to go trough tons of profiles to get to those good ones.


    But if you tell me that having a setup of the cheapest mic, the cheapest mic preamps in a mixer and so on will be equivalent to the most expensive setup regarding sound quality, I don’t believe it. The quality of the signal matters before it hits the Kemper again.


    But I acknowledge your points otherwise.

  • But if you tell me that having a setup of the cheapest mic, the cheapest mic preamps in a mixer and so on will be equivalent to the most expensive setup regarding sound quality, I don’t believe it. The quality of the signal matters before it hits the Kemper again.


    But I acknowledge your points otherwise.

    It would be interesting to know how Kemper did the original profiles in the Factory Content. I was looking for some good Matchless profiles a few days ago and two pf the best I found were Kemper factory rigs.


    Did Kemper take the profiler into a good studio and use a complex signal chain with multiple mics, top notch pre amps and eq or did they plug a 57 straight into the back of the profiler? If the latter, it would certainly disprove the need for expensive external mic pre amps.

  • It would be interesting to know how Kemper did the original profiles in the Factory Content. I was looking for some good Matchless profiles a few days ago and two pf the best I found were Kemper factory rigs.


    Did Kemper take the profiler into a good studio and use a complex signal chain with multiple mics, top notch pre amps and eq or did they plug a 57 straight into the back of the profiler? If the latter, it would certainly disprove the need for expensive external mic pre amps.

    Might be you are talking about the initial Nashville session profiles that still stand the test of time. With those ones I'd say it is probably the former..


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  • The quality of the signal matters before it hits the Kemper again.

    A '57 plugged straight into the back of a Kemper is a clean path, more so than this or another mic routed through a mixer or other preamp.


    But if you tell me that having a setup of the cheapest mic, the cheapest mic preamps in a mixer and so on will be equivalent to the most expensive setup regarding sound quality, I don’t believe it.

    Neither Don nor I said that mate and yeah, I wouldn't believe that either; it makes no sense.


    However, mic placement trumps preamp quality and mic model any day of the week. IOW, a great mic and preamp placed inappropriately won't sound as good as cheap alternatives used properly.


    In addition to this, it's been well-proven over the decades that some of the best mic'd-amp sounds can be achieved via some of the cheapest mic's, the SM57 being one of them of course... and it happens to have been used on more successful recordings than any other in this regard.


    So again, as I implied earlier, the combination of the Kemper's removal of time-based info from the signal, combined with a cheap-but-quality, simple signal path and intelligent mic placement places no practical upper limit upon the potential quality of the resultant Profile.


    Your statistical observations reflect what one would expect in life IMHO - if something's cheap-to-manufacture the vast majority of what's available out there is likely to be "sub-par". Interestingly in the case of amp tones however, one man's trash is another's treasure 'cause practically any tone one can imagine has its place somewhere in someone's creative vision. I say this 'cause the inclination peeps might have could be to dismiss the majority of what's available on the Rig Exchange as low-quality when in fact it's a vast palette of colours that offers something for everyone.

  • But if you tell me that having a setup of the cheapest mic, the cheapest mic preamps in a mixer and so on will be equivalent to the most expensive setup regarding sound quality, I don’t believe it. The quality of the signal matters before it hits the Kemper again.

    of course it matters, but good (expensive) equipment doesn't really do all the work for you. They are tools, no more.


    I don't judge PROFILEs made with just a SM57 plugged directly into the PROFILER - if it's done by someone who knows what he's doing/has similar tastes it might be amazing.


    One of my all-time favourite PROFILE stated in the comments 'MXL R144 center, a foot away' not only did I record and play this PROFILE a lot, I also bought the mic :)

  • After messing around with the fm9 for quite a few weeks, now, I would (repeatedly, I know) say: a Kemper 2 should be like the fm9 (or better Helix) but with simply the Kemper Amp Sounds. Fractal's parallel high quality fx were an eye opener. I've put many heavy fx in the fm9 after the stack in parallel (at least 4) and, yes this is it, for me. Another improvement should be all in one profiles of amps. This means profiles that can blend any driven amp state in only one Amp profile instead of having to mess with many profiles for one and the same amp. If a "Profile Pack" would consist of only one mere profile (the according "amp"), that would be another real next level in ease of use, for me.

    Better have it and not need it, than need it and not have it! - Michael Angelo Batio

  • Monkey_Man
    True…the sm57/sm58 is a mic that has been used on many recordings and yes….a great engineer can get better sound out of bad or mediocre gear than a noob can with great gear. No doubt. I’ve used the sm57 a lot as well. But never alone. Always with another mic for flavor. One mic CAN be dull sounding and not as rich and “full” as blended mics….placed correctly of course.


    The thing is…regarding cheap gear and studio quality gear...it’s exactly my point. The direct line from the cab to the Kemper is a clean signal, but when you insist of using two mics, you have to introduce a mixer and the signal gets disrupted. If introducing a bad mixer to the equation you’re having an inferior signal chain compared to yet another direct input from the cab. I see that as an obvious awesome possibility for home musicians not needing external gear that can flavor the signal. Unless you want it to of course….in the case of having expensive preamps and stuff.


    DonPetersen

    The sm57 is an okay mic to have. It can take a beating and works forever. I don’t see the mic as a good mic though. But a mic that is reliable and if you know how to use it, it’s definitely good enough to use in a pro environment. But alone I still find it dull even if it’s usable in a mix. I know that the guitar sound doesn’t have to sound awesome on its own but in the mix and it can sound dull or really bad on its own but be perfect in the mix. I just have a hard time accepting that fact 🤣 And I mostly just play and need it to sound non-dull playing.


    It’s important for me, that you know I’m completely satisfied with my Kemper and that this is just thoughts in the direction of improving my favorite gear for the future and take it to the next level. If it happens of course 🙂 As much as I love Kemper and what you stand for, I really hate the secrecy strategy 🤣

  • After messing around with the fm9 for quite a few weeks, now, I would (repeatedly, I know) say: a Kemper 2 should be like the fm9 (or better Helix) but with simply the Kemper Amp Sounds. Fractal's parallel high quality fx were an eye opener. I've put many heavy fx in the fm9 after the stack in parallel (at least 4) and, yes this is it, for me. Another improvement should be all in one profiles of amps. This means profiles that can blend any driven amp state in only one Amp profile instead of having to mess with many profiles for one and the same amp. If a "Profile Pack" would consist of only one mere profile (the according "amp"), that would be another real next level in ease of use, for me.

    I think (my opinion) that Helix and Fractal have taken a very different approach to guitar sound. I don't just mean modeling vs profiling, I mean in they work-flow and target market.


    Kemper has a very digital product that is appealing to tube amp purists. It feels like a tube amp and sounds like a tube amp. One could argue that the efx engine is just the icing while the amp tone is the cake.


    Both Helix and Fractal have approached the problem very differently. If one were to re-imagine how a guitar amp setup works and utilize all the capabilities of modern PC's and the infinite screen resources that platform provides, how would you make that amp?


    I am with you on the assertion that Kemper's competitors have nailed tone and efx routing. Also that it does feel like the AxeFX III (which I have actually spent time with as opposed to the FM9 mentioned) does have nicer sounding efx than Kemper.


    I am just not sure that this is where Kemper's audience is (in general).


    Now, to be clear, I approach this from a live performance standpoint .... and I rarely use more than compression, reverb, and delay (all in fairly light amounts). Having a complex routing system is so far down on my "needs" that it likely lands somewhere south of nicer feeling buttons on the Kemper ;).


    There are certainly plenty of customers for the Helix and Axe products, but I see lots more Kempers being used by touring musicians than anything else (other than tube amps).


    It seems like a mistake in product direction to make Kemper into Axe IMO.