Cabinet Module and "Monitor Cab Off" confusion.

  • Hi all,


    Like some others on the forum, I've experienced listening to amazing kemper tones online, only to purchase the pack and find the results underwhelming. Usually it's from a lack of top end frequencies, or what I've heard other refer to at the blanket over the cab effect.


    I have what seems like a basic question I'm hoping someone can answer...


    I am running a powered KPA toaster through a Kabinet. The Kabinet is driven from the speaker output, which is driven off of the Monitor Output internally.


    My understanding is that the Kabinet and Kone are designed to mimic a guitar cabinet when speaker imprints are active, i.e. we're not running in full range mode. To do this you enable the "Monitor Cab Off" which is what unlocks the various speaker imprints. So far so good. The "Monitor Cab Off" option exists to allow you to send the full studio signal chain to FOH, whilst using a guitar cab / Kabinet for your personal monitor. So when MCO is enabled, in theory, we have the complete signal including amp and effects, but without the cabinet module. This is where I get confused... why do I then still hear a different in the sound when I toggle the Cabinet module in this scenario. It sounds all thin and fizzy if the Cabinet module isn't active. Shouldn't I already be bypassing it completely when MCO is enabled?

  • Yes, the whole post is only talking about the monitor/speaker output.


    Probably a clearer summary of the question is - for the monitor output with speaker imprints enabled, why is enabling "Monitor Cab Off" different from disabling the Cabinet module? That is, why do the results coming out of the Kabinet sound different?

  • the explanation is in the manual


    • You probably use Direct PROFILEs in your live set, such as acoustic guitar sounds or bass Rigs. Direct PROFILEs are indicated by having the cabinet module set to Emptyand feature a full-range sound. Running a full-range

      sound through a traditional guitar speaker will sound unpleasant. Therefore, in Speaker Imprint mode (Monitor Cab Off active), when switching to a Direct PROFILE, KEMPER Kone will automatically switch to full-range mode for that

    Rig. No preparation required!

    • If you are using the KEMPER Acoustic Simulator effect, you are advised to switch off the amplifier and cabinet

      modules. This again makes the KEMPER Kone automatically switch to full-range mode for that Rig.

  • Ah, that clarifies things, thanks for the reference.


    It's an interesting choice to always put the the Kone in FR mode for direct profiles. On the one hand it automatically handles the acoustic simulator / full range signal case, but it also seems to imply that we can't use speaker imprints with direct profiles. The use of imprints on top of direct profiles seem like it should in theory give the most accurate AITR reproduction. Instead if we want to accomplish this, we would either need to find a genuine merged profile, or resort to studio profiles and use the CabDriver approximation. Maybe I'm overlooking something though.


    If the above is accurate, it would be really nice to allow the user the option to be able to select an imprint when using direct profiles. I think this would boil down to *not* automatically switching to FR mode for direct profiles when Monitor Cab Off is active. Instead the user would have to manually disable Monitor Cab Off to enter FR mode. We don't lose any functionality, but perhaps miss out on some convenience... At that point, Monitor Cab Off essentially becomes a "Use Speaker Imprint" button when used with the Kone, which seems more intuitive.

  • From page 81 of the manual:

    "Direct PROFILEs are either intended to be played through a speaker that adds coloration or are intended to be played without distortion."


    I guess the automatic switch to FR mode is why distorted direct profiles only work with real guitar cabinets, and don't sound good through the Kone.


    Some of the clean direct profiles do sound fantastic through the Kone.

  • It's an interesting choice to always put the the Kone in FR mode for direct profiles. On the one hand it automatically handles the acoustic simulator / full range signal case, but it also seems to imply that we can't use speaker imprints with direct profiles. The use of imprints on top of direct profiles seem like it should in theory give the most accurate AITR reproduction. Instead if we want to accomplish this, we would either need to find a genuine merged profile, or resort to studio profiles and use the CabDriver approximation. Maybe I'm overlooking something though.

    I initially thought the same about the Direct Profile issue but it actually makes total sense when you think about it.

    If you use a Direct Profile and are sending this to FOH you WILL have a Cab loaded in the Cab section otherwise the audience will get a bee in a jam jar tone out front. Therefore, Direct Profiles with the Kabinet work just fine as the Cab Section will be active so the Kabinet WON’T be running in full range mode.

  • Interesting, so I should be able to place a “dummy” cab in there which I then proceed to bypass so I can select the desired imprint. I’ll need to play around with that, great tip! cheers.

  • I’ve read this thread several times and still am confused.
    I have a powered KPA and a Kemper Kabinet on my back line.
    I want to hear what FOH gets with a high quality studio profile.


    So,


    I should not use imprints on my Kabinet? Right?


    For me to hear what FOH gets, I should set the Kabinet to FRFR? Right?
    How do I do that?


    Or, on the other hand, is running the Kabinet with FRFR not accomplishing the “amp in the room” effect that many players miss?

  • Hi KellyMidiMurphy,

    I should not use imprints on my Kabinet? Right?


    For me to hear what FOH gets, I should set the Kabinet to FRFR? Right?
    How do I do that?



    Are you running two Kabinets in stereo? If so, turn on Monitor Stereo (second button from the left).


    Or, on the other hand, is running the Kabinet with FRFR not accomplishing the “amp in the room” effect that many players miss?


    When you disable Monitor Cab Off you are enabling the Cab (cabinet and microphone emulation) and the Kabinet operates in FRFR mode.


    You get to decide which you prefer. Please tell us what you hear.

  • Quick follow up to my original post. I spent most of the weekend getting acquainted with the intricacies of tone tweaking, learning about the various parameters, reading forum posts, and watching youtube videos. I must say that I couldn't be happier with the results. I initially thought I could buy a profile pack and it should sound just like it did in the video. Now I understand there are many variables outside of the profile itself, such as guitar type, physical speaker rig, listening environment to name a few. After learning more about how to tweak for what I want to hear, I love what's coming of the Kabinet.


    My main takeaway is that there are few hard rules. Some of my tweaked profiles are using full range, some are using imprints, and some of even using no cab module at all. I'm really loving some of the sparkly clean which can be achieve by doing the latter. I've been tweaking each profile for a specific guitar and pickup combination and that seems to be working well for me.


    Thanks for the tips, this forum is a wealth of information.

  • So I played around with turning the Monitor Cab on or off. I could really tell the difference. I got the famous "sounds like a blanket over the speaker" when not running in FRFR.


    However, while I was playing around, I decided to try some of the speaker imprints. I WAS AMAZED!


    Many of my go to profiles sounded better using the imprint instead of the FRFR setting. Using the imprints made my backline Kabinet sound much better and more like "amp in the room".


    I also found out that CLEAN sounds were not as affected when comparing different imprints. MEDIUM TO HIGH GAIN sounds really sounded different depending on the imprint you are using.


    My favorite imprint so far is the "Green Back" But, I am still exploring.


    Here is the link from the Kemper page that describes each imprint. https://www.kemper-amps.com/speaker-imprints

    If you have not played around with the imprints, be sure you do. They are a gamechanger.