Cinema in stead of snapshots

  • Hi All! I'm reading a book about consciousness, a popular scientific work. Lots of stuff to think about, many theories, quantum physics. Consciousness could be a stream of snapshots. Like old-timy cinema, many snapshots in a quick sequence give the impression of movement: film.


    Many pro profilers like my fellow Dutchman Bert Meulendijks take many snapshots of the same amp. All channels, varying amounts of gain, various settings. Dozens of profiles of the same amp.


    Wouldn't it be possible to take these profiles and form one working digital model of the amp? With soft buttons for channel switching and switches on the original amp? So the gain and EQ knobs react like on the original amp? Just a thought.

  • That would require way too much processing power and memory. Maybe in about 100 years. And then Kemper would have to worry about copyright infringement.

    Larry Mar @ Lonegun Studios. Neither one famous yet.

  • There are already products that provide digital „twins“ (eg. Fractal). Kemper goal: Capture sound and behavior of a certain sweet spot.
    Additionally I would expect thousands of profiles needed to achieve a realistic behavior. Why that: Every knob in every combination (Engl Amps have frequency shifts, different volumes, ...). I cannot imagine anyone being happy doing this ?

  • I do believe https://www.acustica-audio.com/ does something along those lines actually. It won't take 100 years for sure until machine learning finally gets us there.

    Kemper PowerRack |Kemper Stage| Rivera 4x12 V30 cab | Yamaha DXR10 pair | UA Apollo Twin Duo | Adam A7X | Cubase DAW
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    Edited once, last by musicmad ().

  • musicmad WOW! I didn’t know about that. Interesting concept.


    It appears the issues just now that would stop it being practical in a Kemper are:


    1 - each sample session takes days or even weeks

    2 - refining with Deep Learning needs a highly skilled operator and several hours of tweaking

    3 - massive computer power (at least compared to what is inside the KPA)


    even after that I wonder if the results are really significantly different to a good component level model.


    I agree it won’t be 100 years. Maybe even inside the next 10 who knows.


    Thanks for the link ?

  • ...I agree it won’t be 100 years. Maybe even inside the next 10 who knows.

    Doesn't really matter how fast it can happen because the lawsuits for copyright protection will come way faster. I don't think amp companies are just going to sit back and watch other companies model their sound at 100%.

    Larry Mar @ Lonegun Studios. Neither one famous yet.

  • Doesn't really matter how fast it can happen because the lawsuits for copyright protection will come way faster. I don't think amp companies are just going to sit back and watch other companies model their sound at 100%.

    i don’t see any way that this approach would breach any copyright/patent as you can’t patent a sound and technology would be achieving the sound in a completely different manner.

  • i don’t see any way that this approach would breach any copyright/patent as you can’t patent a sound and technology would be achieving the sound in a completely different manner.

    It would. Harley Davidson sued Honda successfully when Honda tried to copy the Harley throaty sound. Harley proved they owned that distinct sound and that customers "identified" with it. Just like Marshall or Fender would do.


    But friends can disagree with no harm done. ;)

    Larry Mar @ Lonegun Studios. Neither one famous yet.

  • I remember my Line 6 HD500, it mimicked the model perfectly. The Vox had a cut knob instead of a presence control which (like the original) worked counter clockwise and one of the models ditched the EQ in favour of two gain knobs (again, like the amp modelled). It felt like a great idea but sadly, I spent forever tweaking it to sound right.


    Then came my KPA. Sure, the controls aren't modelled to work exactly like the real amp but they work surprisingly well. Find that great Marshall amp profile but need a little more gain or less treble? Do it. Does it sound entirely authentic? Well, to my ears, I now have a perfect sounding Marshall tone. It's lost none of the character I chose the profile for. It's only my brain that considers if it's authentic or not.


    Give me a genuine valve amp and I don't tend to play with the extremes of the settings, I find perceived sweet spots and adjust it to best suit the guitar. Then it's a minor tweak here and there depending on circumstances. Isn't that essentially what we do with a KPA?