Kemper doesn't work for Gn'R guitarists

  • The front end of the digital fuzz pedal does not see a load of the pickup - it does not do the same trick like you would expect from the real pedal.

    I'll preface my Rey by admitting I am neither an electronics expert or a fuzz afficionado so I could be totally wrong.


    I don't think that is the case. From what I understand it is the less than 10kinput impedance of the pedal that loads down the guitar signal. Therefore, it shouldn't matter what the digital fuzz sees as long as the input impedance of the device can be set to around 10k. I believe the actual fuzz face circuit shows the guitar between 5.4k and 8.2k depending of settings.

  • I'll preface my Rey by admitting I am neither an electronics expert or a fuzz afficionado so I could be totally wrong.


    I don't think that is the case. From what I understand it is the less than 10kinput impedance of the pedal that loads down the guitar signal. Therefore, it shouldn't matter what the digital fuzz sees as long as the input impedance of the device can be set to around 10k. I believe the actual fuzz face circuit shows the guitar between 5.4k and 8.2k depending of settings.

    I am no expert too - I have no clue ^^ I can only say what I experience. I never have played any digital solution that reacts like a germanium fuzz. Helix didn't do the trick, when I tried. Maybe it's the first gain stage of the fuzz that creates the magic not only pu load. Somehow all digital units can't exactly recreate it. Not Kemper, Source Audio... not Helix, even if set the input impedance (digitally controlled) in the analog input stage.

  • It really does seem like operator error/inexperience with the KPA. Just because Fortus supposedly "uses modeling technology every day" doesn't mean he has bothered to figure out how to get the KPA to do what he wants. Trying it out "in rehearsal once" kind of speaks for itself as far as the time spent with the profiler.


    Also, I would imagine there is some significant pressure inside the band NOT to use any kind of modeler on stage with GnR. It's an image thing. I realize it's just a guess, but knowing all of the old-school mentalities in a band like this, I wouldn't be surprised.

    PRS Singlecuts
    Kemper PowerHead/Remote



    Quote from skoczy

    When you turn the knob on KPA, you wake up the captured souls of tube amps living inside.

  • Slash is a Gibson/Marshall moving marketing commercial. No reason for them to not say those are the most amazing thing in the world, we might be talking about thousands in equipment invested and who knows how much in sponsorship. Also I dont go looking for what GnR have to say about tone, I would rather be turning my head about what bonamasa, Eric johnson, mayer, knopfler can say about tone. GnR opinion on the kemper results really worthless to me. Funny none the less.

    The answer is 42

  • It really does seem like operator error/inexperience with the KPA. Just because Fortus supposedly "uses modeling technology every day" doesn't mean he has bothered to figure out how to get the KPA to do what he wants. Trying it out "in rehearsal once" kind of speaks for itself as far as the time spent with the profiler.


    Also, I would imagine there is some significant pressure inside the band NOT to use any kind of modeler on stage with GnR. It's an image thing. I realize it's just a guess, but knowing all of the old-school mentalities in a band like this, I wouldn't be surprised.

    Oh, I don't like your comment, but your signature Desiato :P

  • I definitely ride my vol knob and really find the Kemper to be amazingly responsive for edge of breakup subtleties.

    I think they(GnR) did not have time to properly sit down and find their way with it.

    It's OK.

  • Slash is a Gibson/Marshall moving marketing commercial.

    In fairness, back in the day that really was the sound for certain styles of rock. I couldn't afford a Marshall when I was young (and I was too scrawny to swing a Les Paul around all night without ripping an arm out of its socket). I played Strats to boot, so I was keenly aware of the deficiencies in my sound when compared to that combination.


    The other guitarist I'm playing with is a Les Paul / Marshall guy and is currently on an amp tone hunt. He's got a Marshall Code, Origin, and a DSL is arriving this week. He's not a pedal guy and his preference is to have a rhythm sound and a lead sound, both purely out of the amp. With what we're doing that works fine, and I have the Kemper if we need wobbly bits (e.g. tremolo on 30 Days in the Hole).


    I pointed out today that he has $1500 invested in 3 amps, but for $500 more I have hundreds (plus the wobbly bits). He loves the way my amp sounds, but these choices are a very personal thing. Turning knobs on a tube amp is his happy place, and happy is all that matters. The main difference between him and the Slash commentary is that my guy understands the Kemper will do what his Marshalls will, but is capable of preferring his own approach without feeling the need to diminish the Kemper. And make no mistake - a Marshall in full glory is a beautiful thing to behold.


    There's a snippet in the Lord of the Rings books where the dwarf and elf finally come down to it over Gimli thinking Galadriel is the fairest of them all while Legolas feels the same way about Arwen. When asked if they should get their weapons as promised to fight it out, the elf declines and says that one has simply chosen the morning star and the other the evening star, so how can there be a conflict? I really see the comparison of the Kemper with tube amps in the same light.

    Kemper remote -> Powered toaster -> Yamaha DXR-10

  • There's a snippet in the Lord of the Rings books where the dwarf and elf finally come down to it over Gimli thinking Galadriel is the fairest of them all while Legolas feels the same way about Arwen. When asked if they should get their weapons as promised to fight it out, the elf declines and says that one has simply chosen the morning star and the other the evening star, so how can there be a conflict? I really see the comparison of the Kemper with tube amps in the same light.

    You sir, are a man of culture. Props for the analogy.

    The answer is 42

  • I reckon some of my own profiles did not always clean up as I wanted with git vol pot , but with a bit of screening & tweaking , I made some great ones.


    It's mainly a manner of patience , a things this guys may lack a lot ;) they are not very fair.


    I know Slash 's got a hotel rig with a KPA , thx to Sollazzon


    That said, I would not be especially happy to see a GNR with all the guitarists using KPA, I prefer going to concerts with folks playing on stacks, it's part of the folklore especially in metal, with Izzy using the stack for feedback for instance.

  • My take on this is the same as previously stated:


    1) They don't need any flex so why invest time in a digital amp to copy a "single" sound/amp config. In other words they are happy so even if the Kemper hit what they wanted, very little benefit for them. Richard alluded to this in his comments that he now doesn't need that flex.


    2) Digital would not go with slash's image...in fact rejecting it is more in line with his thoughts


    3) The KPA does not behave exactly the same their amps because:

    a) I suspect they did not profile their amps

    b) because it behaves in a linear way and amps don't - so do they clean up when volume is dropped, yes. Its it exactly in the same way as the orginal, probably not.


    4) We all know the KPA takes time to dial in compared to a set up that Slash has used for 30 years. Add that to no reason to change so any surprises?


    5) Do I care what Slash thinks? No. :)

  • I care what Slash thinks. I'm ok with him not thinking exactly like me though :)

    Kemper PowerRack |Kemper Stage| Rivera 4x12 V30 cab | Yamaha DXR10 pair | UA Apollo Twin Duo | Adam A7X | Cubase DAW
    Fender Telecaster 62 re-issue chambered mahogany | Kramer! (1988 or so...) | Gibson Les Paul R7 | Fender Stratocaster HBS-1 Classic Relic Custom Shop | LTD EC-1000 Evertune | 1988 Desert Yellow JEM

  • waraba it was his guitar tech.. not Slash himself.

    About Slash I remember he used to practice in hotel room with IK multimedia on his tablet.. in a commercial spot for IK amplitude. ?


    Anyway.. to be short, I do not agree with Richard Fortus said in that interview, and probably he's been too muck.. heavy with those world.

    and I Guess GnR gutarists should have to give Kemper another try but ..


    do they need to do it??

    I mean.. they can afford any amp/gear the may need and any tech to take care of them.

    Come on before covid, they made a world tour of 2 years, almost always sold out at any date, Without putting out any new album or even one singol.

  • If I could have 3 miked tube amps, a guitar tech, and a team of sound people I would also do that. To me that's still the most incredible sound. But... I don't have that option so I'm willing to slightly compromise for convenience and flexibility.


    I also find myself getting uber bored when faced with a whole concert of the same rig, regardless of how perfect the sound is.

  • He's absolutely adamant that only a cranked Marshall will do, unless you purchase the digital one with his name on it. Isn't this similar to how he became a Gibson endorser? There was no LP on the handful of tracks that he got known for, but he was a Gibson man through and through. ?

  • I am a big Mark Knopfler fan, and tought he was the last one to switch out his big tubeamps! In my opinion i can create 99% the sounds that I had with my tubeamps. but if i dont had to carry my gear I could easyly had Bogners and Matchless on stage!! but dont think the audience would notice! For guitarists who use one guitar and have one signature sound, i think Kemper is completely wrong amp

  • but dont think the audience would notice!

    I actually think the opposite. The audience notice an improvement because of the consistency of sound and also the ability to keep stage volume down. The volume isn’t such a big issue if you are playing stadiums but for mid sized bands playing concert halls where the front rows of the audience are within 50m of the stage the lower backline volume makes it possible for the FOH engineer o get a proper mix. I went to see Trevor Horn a few years back at the Glasgow Royal Concert Hall. The whole band had Kemper’s except one guitarist who had a Dual Rec and 412 cab. The Dual Rec was the worst sound by a long way but fortunately I was sitting on the opposite side of stage so didn't have to suffer it parting my hair.

  • I actually think the opposite. The audience notice an improvement because of the consistency of sound and also the ability to keep stage volume down. The volume isn’t such a big issue if you are playing stadiums but for mid sized bands playing concert halls where the front rows of the audience are within 50m of the stage the lower backline volume makes it possible for the FOH engineer o get a proper mix. I went to see Trevor Horn a few years back at the Glasgow Royal Concert Hall. The whole band had Kemper’s except one guitarist who had a Dual Rec and 412 cab. The Dual Rec was the worst sound by a long way but fortunately I was sitting on the opposite side of stage so didn't have to suffer it parting my hair.

    I still dont get why people go full 412s in most situations, it looks nice, yes, but if the stage is big, you have to be miced to FOH. The only reason I see myself playing a 412 is for my own delight and the air it moves on my back, but there is no practical way to feel that at home, so 212 is in my opinion the most I will ever need, on stage and at home. Also, on the great scheme of things, directionality is still a problem with any cab, if you dont go FOH, half the people in the audience (or more) will hear you like poop, in the bad spots, even a 412 sounds too bad. No wonder the Dual Recto sounded like trash.

    The answer is 42

  • I still dont get why people go full 412s in most situations

    Agreed, I don’t get the love for 412 either.

    It may be different for other styles, but in rock and roll image has always mattered. There's a certain amount of swagger and wild abandon implied, and the visuals aren't far behind the music in terms of importance. Maybe it shouldn't matter, but it's been that way for a long time now. Rock and roll has always been associated with overkill.


    Lest we forget, these are the performing arts. Anyone who forgot that was promptly reminded in the 80s when MTV became a thing. Try getting a gig in a 1980s hair band with bad hair (at least that kept me out of wearing spandex). Kiss had walls of 412 cabinets. A couple were miked. Most were empty. Back in the 70s I ran with two 100 watt amps and 16 12s. Highly unnecessary for bars (and occasionally painful). From an audio perspective, all you really need is one speaker per amp, and the associated mic. But it was always about more than just the audio.


    I was thinking of all this just last week. My other guitarist has a Marshall Origin and a 412. He's a pure no pedals, guitar to amp kinda guy and was considering a second amp, one for lead, the other for rhythm. He has a little Fender Champ that he loves the sound of, but he was afraid of how it would look on stage. Marshalls have a rock image. A tiny Fender, not so much. I'm way past it at this point and am fine with my backline being completely invisible. After all, it's not like we'll be playing anything but tiny bars these days with a classic rock band.


    Nonetheless, I do understand the love for the 412s. It's an image thing, and that's not out of place in a rock and roll band. As long as you don't ask me to carry it for you.

    Kemper remote -> Powered toaster -> Yamaha DXR-10