Kemper doesn't work for Gn'R guitarists

    I don’t want to seem argumentative or confrontational but I genuinely don’t understand what you are trying to say. I can’t follow your logic.

    Quote from Nitocris


    The issue with the Kemper I find is it scoops everything. Which is fine for NU Metal players but not for classic rock or 80s rock and metal. You need mids for that kind of tone. it makes a huge difference in how your guitar sounds, feels and how your volume control responds.

    This says that the Kemper scoops everything which doesn't work for Classic Rock which needs more mids. Then you say this sort of scooped sound DOES work for NU Metal.


    However, your next post says,


    Quote from Nitocris

    but it won't do EVH, Thrash or any kind of NU-Metal or Power metal. Those sounds are much more scooped

    This suggests to me that the Kemper ISN’T scooped? Now I’m confused.


    If you find the sounds are too scooped add some mids with an EQ or the AMP EQ. If you want to change the character of the overdrive more than the overall tone put the amp EQ in the “Pre” setting.


    If you want to have a more dramatic effect and get a more old school tone go onto the Amp settings and reduce definition slightly.


    I grew up on Santana, Larry Carlton, Robben Ford and like you lots of classic rock so I’m familiar with a full mid sound and I don’t find the Kemper scooped. However, the beauty of the Amp settings is there is massive scope to scult the tone you need with very limited tweaking or menu diving. Remember Definition is your friend.

    Quote from Nitocris

    The issue with the Kemper I find is it scoops everything. Which is fine for NU Metal players but not for classic rock or 80s rock and metal. You need mids for that kind of tone. it makes a huge difference in how your guitar sounds, feels and how your volume control responds.

    what do you mean by scooped. With the settings you shared you are getting, good classics rock, aren’t you? The Friedman video above is playing 80s. rock.


    Now I find some comercial profiles overly compressed and they don’t clean up as expected, but there are other profiles that blow your mind for hard rock or classic rock. It depends on what the profiler was trying to do. If the amp settings profiled are scooped, the result will be scooped.


    Perhaps you are referring to something else, what do you mean?


    This Alice Cooper guitarist plays AC classic 70/80s tones with Gibson guitars. I don’t find that tone scooped or compressed.


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    Quote from Monkey_Man

    If the mids you want are there in the amp->cab->mic setup, they'll be there in the resulting Profiles.

    This exactly. If it doesn't have enough mids, it's not the Kempers fault.

    I can make profiles have ONLY mids if I want. I can scoop the living hell out of them too and do Pantera or have a tone like my ENGL or duplicate my excellent 57 tweed amp so closely I sold it.

    I really think a KPA has the BEST mids. It's just in the right place. I'm confident I'm not alone when I say that.

    Quote from Dynochrome

    This exactly. If it doesn't have enough mids, it's not the Kempers fault.

    I can make profiles have ONLY mids if I want. I can scoop the living hell out of them too and do Pantera or have a tone like my ENGL or duplicate my excellent 57 tweed amp so closely I sold it.

    I really think a KPA has the BEST mids. It's just in the right place. I'm confident I'm not alone when I say that.

    I’m a new user of kemper and I also tend to think it’s really hard to get the « right mids » that you can get immediately with an amp.


    I’m a Marshall kind of guy (plexi) and it’s really hard to find profiles that have just the body AND mids characteristics.


    Maybe it’s because I don’t really know how the kemper works but I would be happy if you could share just one of your rock profile! Just to see if it’s just me or the profiles I found :)


    I also know that the kemper is a beast to tweak. For example you move definition down a bit you’ve got to adjust the bass, but no luck the bass frequency is not this one so you have to put an Eq m, before or after etc etc.

    Try the Profilers Lead Booster before the AMP.

    Just to be clear:


    1) Wasn't bashing Slash because of the KPA...I was bashing the fact that many people think he's amazing, when (in my opinion) hes good but not amazing. Paradise City solo? Really? Generic pentatonic solo? Although the end motif is quite nice, not exactly Hotel California. Anyway, the point is, its my opinion.


    2) My point was he is a great songwriter. I was making the distinction that although songwriting is an element ( albeit an important one) but its not the only aspect.


    2) Slash didn;t mention it himself, it was Richard, so we don;t really know. Regardless, his opinion means very little as Im not a big fan.


    3) The sounds on his amplitube video were dreadful.


    Its not that I don;t respect him, as said hes a really good guitarist. In fact I'm not really bashing him, just making the point that there are many better guitarists that are not as famous, many in the same. Yes he was responsible for Gibson revival, even though he didn;t play one.


    Ironically I really like "Appetite". That is one of the great albums of all time, does that by definition make him one of the greatest guitarists of all time? He was a key part of the them as a guitar band, but Izzy wrote much of the music, Axl was one of the most iconic vocalists blah blah.


    So nothing for me to get over. Just because I'm not famous ( or even as good) mean I can't have an opinion. You don;t have to agree with it but its as valid as yours.

    Sorry mate, it's perfectly ok not to like his songs or his playing.


    But "considering him good and not great" as you stated, takes us back to basics.


    So, a songriter who wrote (or co-wrote no problem) massive timeless hits and some of the greatest solos of all time according to every list, is "just good".


    Maybe you should reconsider what makes a great guitarist, and not a "just good" one. Nuno for example (since he is your favourite), is of course a phenomenal guitar player and one of my favourites too. But he is subjectively nowhere near Slash in terms of massive diachronic hits, or great all-time compositional solos.


    You also said he is not "diverse". He is an artist, not a session player. Gilmour, Hendrix, The Edge, BB king, SRV, Malmsteen, EVH and a million others were not diverse either, I guess that makes them "just good" right?


    And finally, since Slash is just good, I would be really inerested to know how you consider yourself as a guitar player. Don't take this personal, it's not, just for the sake of conversation.

    I don’t see this thread bashing Slash at all. Music is a matter of taste, and he is not the cup of tea for many, that’s it. Other great players have their own critics, too. That does not says anything about their achievements and merits.


    Slash did not even open his mouth about Kemper. It was Fortus, Let’s bash Fortus!! :D:D:D

    I actually said he's really good, just not great but lets not get into semantics as we both know what we mean :).


    As I keep saying, its not that I don;t like him or GnR, I do for all the reasons you and actually I have mentioned. To me he is not in that higher league of guitarists that are out there.


    I said one aspect was diversity, the other is impact. Yes he made rock guitar popular again, so did Oasis. Anyone want to say that Noel Gallagher is a great guitarist? Its the whole package. Malmsteen redefined technique, so did Hendrix and Eddie.


    What makes someone great in my eyes is not album sales. Wham sold massive numbers but that doesn't make Andrew Ridgely a great guitar player. I say this obviously to make a point...Slash is obviously way better!


    I don;t hate Slash, I've even read his book and enjoyed it. His work with Miles and solo stuff is also pretty cool....but a great guitarist in the context of some of the players out there? Personally not. You won't like this statement but for me he is not a guitarists guitarist, he's a peoples guitarist. I suspect in a poll of general people, Slash would rate higher than Eddie or Hendrix but does that make him objectively better


    BTW I really don't rate The Edge either for all the same reasons, but that's another chapter.


    How to I consider my playing? Given I don;t do it for a living, its just a hobby BUT that I've been playing for about 35 years...I genuinely think mediocre/very average. I could be way better if I put the time and effort in, I have no theory, not much of my own voice, definitely not at all versatile. My acoustic playing is very limited, my slide playing a bit laughable ( as I found when trying to play Whitesnake Micky Moody stuff). My technique is ok although a bit sloppy but I can play most songs I want to play. I enjoy playing GnR songs, they are fun. Although its massively cheesy, I do play Sweet Child and Paradise city in our band including the solos so I know them pretty well. I play them ok (I know what is not quite right and what is nailed).


    BTW loving the debate, just conscious I don;t want to take over this thread...

    Quote from Calaban

    Pat Martino and Barney Kessell are literally better at music than every guitarist you guys are arguing about.


    But that’s the thing about opinions....they’re not worth arguing.

    What do you call being "better" at music? Knows more about theory? faster? more accurate? Made more money making it? More popular? In the last two cases I'd bet Slash is "better" at music. Go into a room and ask people who Pat Martino and Barney Kessell are and then ask if they know who Slash is. maybe I'm just a dullard but I couldn't name one Pat Martino or Barney Kessell song that ever went gold.

    Quote from V8guitar

    You won't like this statement but for me he is not a guitarists guitarist, he's a peoples guitarist.

    You see..here we have it.This is all about.


    For me personally this was somewhat a "life long issue" ..do I want to impress other guitar players or do I want to develop my own voice?You hardly can do both.As Satriani said it some months ago..when ever he goes into "full practice mode" learning new techniques he loses feel and expression.Most of us would wholeheartedly agree I think.So..


    Shawn Lane or Slash?

    Holdsworth or Santana?

    Guthrie or Jeff Beck?


    It is completely impossible to answer this question.


    But I know that all the pro musicians I know hide the "impressive" and play very disciplined for their clients in the studio and on stage to play for the song.And only for the song.This is how money is earned in music.


    Ofcourse you have Nuno,Malmsteen and all the others who have "everything" but let's be honest..most of these guys are "leftovers" from better times of the electric guitar.It is a difficult issue to judge in 2021 who is a "musicians musician" and who "plays for the people"..I mean..John Mayer could just stand naked in a corner with no strings on his guitar and still the chicks would make him a superstar nevertheless.


    Most people can't hear Malmsteen for more than 10 minutes.I belong to these people.And I LOVE!! him.."normal people" turn away after 30 seconds.


    But I can hear Slash,Santana,Chuck Berry all day long..same as my girl friend..?


    It is all about good music in the end.And who likes what kind of music.If some one likes this shredding(guitar or whatever) stuff 24/7..be my guest..to each his own.

    Quote from Nikos

    Shawn Lane or Slash?

    Holdsworth or Santana?

    Guthrie or Jeff Beck?


    It is completely impossible to answer this question.

    No, it´s not .... Holdsworth every day of the week :P


    But it´s not a competition ,

    It´s about your personal taste and preferences

    If people like Slash or "Tyngre Gallsteen" ... Fine, let them .

    Who cares ? :wacko:


    Cheers !

    The adjective for metal is metallic. But not so for iron ... which is ironic.

    Like 1

    Ofcourse.


    It is all about preferences.Some lads just freaking want to impress other musicians.I know many of them.We all know many of them.And you know what?For me this is perfectly fine as long as this is really satisfactory for these guys.As long as they are happy (and I mean really happy!!) all is good.Even if they have to play hilarious well known children songs melodies to make their audition laugh for a few seconds to keep their attention for one more minute of their shredding.. its ok..?


    But in my experience most of the times this did not work out forever.It is a thing of young players.And only a very few continue with this (impressing other musicians) and are fine with that beyond their 30s.I met so many guitar players who shredded their whole live but are somewhat unhappy that they never learned to play a melody straight,with nice vibrato,tasteful bendings and and ofcourse the right intonation.And truth is..there is no good player without these attributes.If my vibrato and my intonation is shit..all is futile..all is for nothing.


    I guess this is a truth most of us will not deny.

    I agree with all of the above ( even though I "started" this).


    Music is almost entirely subjective. I do believe in a small level of objectivity. What defines a guitarist? If my 14 year old daughter picks up a guitar and just blindly strums without fretting notes and just making noise, is she a guitarist ? In the same way as mentioned above that some technique is needed to produce a commonly accepted pleasing noise.


    Scale that up and I think some level of musical skill has to be a measure. Popularity for me is a measure but not the biggest.


    Why measure? Purely to identify players that we might want to listen to. If someone says this player is the best I've ever seen, I will go listen to potentially learn from them..


    Few guitarists will deny Hendrix and EVH were great, even if not fans of their music, so we all apply some measurement..in their case its influence on the craft of playing guitar which is undeniable....and I confess I'm not big fans of theirs either but I'd certain not deny their "greatness".


    All a bit deep for a Tuesday!


    In summary, Slash is in my opinion a really good guitarist. He is held in higher regard than perhaps he should be compared to others, which translates into influence on others. Hence why I raised it in the first place. Kempers don;t work for GnR? So I challenged why that is.. . But this is just my opinion.


    Who cares? Secretly we all do...ha...so suggest we close this off before I bore everyone...as long as everyone agrees that Slash is only OK and not great...only joking!!!! :)

    no no..


    We dont talk about popularity.At least not me.I was talking about being recognizable.With the way we play.As I said..with Slash I had this often.With each of his project after GnR.


    Sitting in the car.Hearing radio.Guitar..song..riffs..leads..I never knew it was him.But I was like "hey..this sounds like Slash..".


    And it was indeed him.Everytime.


    Edit

    Another guy in the early 90s was this guy who played these lines on motorcycle emptiness.Manic street preachers.Forget his name.But these are musicians which I prefer over guys who have to fight the shred demon all the time... like...me for example...?

    Edited 2 times, last by Nikos ().

    Quote from Nikos

    Edit

    Another guy in the early 90s was this guy who played these lines on motorcycle emptiness.Manic street preachers.Forget his name.But these are musicians which I prefer over guys who have to fight the shred demon all the time... like...me for example...?

    Great guitar riff...not sure if it was Richey, who disappeared, or James...

    Quote from Nikos

    All the next singles after that song.. I recognized it was the same band through the guitar.


    Wonderful.


    Not many musicians have this gift.

    Although the riff sounds a bit like Slither from Velvet revolver, so you sure its not Slash....I'm so sorry, could';t resist that poor joke :)