Level into Logic is sooo low

  • itm wrote he bought an XLR/TRS cable, so – since the RME's input is TRS balanced – it seems he now uses the KPA's balanced output?


    Yes. As far as I have understood the whole matter, the XLR-outs of the KPA are balanced, but the TRS-outs are not balanced. I don't know what kind of cables he used before but I guess he used stereo TRS cables. You can't use those to connect unbalanced to balanced TRS without loosing half of the signal.


    It should work with a mono cable or with a stereo cable plugged in only halfway in the jack.

  • Why have TRS outs if they're unbalanced?
    That's a question, not a challenge btw


    I don't know. That was the information, the OP got when he asked the Kemper support. I do think this is a bit exotic and confusing but there migzht be a reason we don't know. CK might jump in on that one.

  • Sure, the Output jack is unbalanced (TS only). If you use a balanced cable with it, there will be just one half of the (double) line carrying a signal, as if it were an unbalanced cable. Where is the "half signal" supposed to get wasted?


    If we arrive at something, I'll be able to wikpa it properly. This might help other/future owners to avoid wrong choices and/or purchases :)

  • Ya- it's definitely strange that the Main Outputs are XLR BALANCED and TRS UNBALANCED... I'm assuming there's a reason for this, I'm just not a tech to know exactly why. It wouldn't hurt the KPA to label this more clearly on the rear panel by the jacks- especially when the manual simply states to "connect the main outs of the KPA to your mixer." A little more info about how to properly connect would be wise.
    All I know is that I'm glad this was finally figured out (thanks to everyone on the thread for contributing, btw), as I was getting very frustrated, and wasn't comfortable bringing the unit to sessions outside of my studio.

  • No- it's the the TRS outputs on the Kemper are unbalanced, so I'm getting less level going into the RME. With the new cables I got, which are XLR to TRS, I'm getting the balanced XLR signal from the Kemper, therefore increasing the level. All's well!

  • No- it's the the TRS outputs on the Kemper are unbalanced, so I'm getting less level going into the RME. With the new cables I got, which are XLR to TRS, I'm getting the balanced XLR signal from the Kemper, therefore increasing the level. All's well!

    Well, actually there's no way to get a balanced signal out of an unbalanced socket by just using a balanced cable. Hence my question :huh:

  • Sure- I was just unaware that the TRS outputs are unbalanced...
    The manual should be make that more clear, as well as possibly labeling the output jacks on the rear of the KPA so there's no confusion.

  • Look, a TRS is able to carry two signals plus the "ground". This is meant for a balanced or stereo signal. No need for a TRS if all you have/get is au unbalanced signal, for which a "mono" chord (TS) is enough. Hence, if the KPA outs are unbalanced, they also are TS. You see, there would be no reason for them to waste a signal line. Unless you need to carry a stereo signal.

  • Every fully grown male individual with golden ears, that really could hear the shortcomings of the present audio and sampling science and technology would expose himself to blind A/B comparisons and become really famous by showing the world that the science has overlooked something. And there are thousands of scientists (including me) waiting for such a case to shake the world of audio science.

    Since this thread is now dead, I thought I'd post here just to make things easier.


    I had promised I'd chime back when I'd have something more/new to say.


    I have recently had a mail exchange with Eng. Nuti (the founder of the Audio Review Italian magazine). While waiting for him to produce something more interesting from a technical point of view, I thought I'd share with the forum some excerpts from our correspondence.
    This is what Eng. Nuti wrote to me (the English translation is mine, I apologize for any mistake or unclear expression):


    "The article of mine [you mentioned on the Kemper forum] is about the reproduction of a mix of directed and undirected sounds.
    Despite my age (66) and the physiological hearing loss, I have no hesitation in distinguishing between two 24/96 versions of the same track, one coming from the analog master, the other coming from a 16/44 digital master. Of curse when the characteristics of the material allow to appreciate the differences.
    Once identified the proper material, and explained (again) that the differences are not in the timbre (which is the same even with a decent compression) nor in the perceived audio dynamic, but rather in the "body" of the sound, what typically happens in a panel of 40 people is that at least 35 are able to identify the two versions without mistakes.


    There are of course more scientific ways to approach the matter, but I'm sure that, if you ever happen to take part in one of our public demonstrations that take place now and then, you will agree.
    You will also agree that, paying close attention or raising the volume level, even a sinusoidal tone in the mid range at -90 dB/16 bit sounds different from one at -90 dB recorded at 20 bits (as I wrote, the 24-bit is just a mathematical issue, "in nature" ADCs and DACs are limited to 20-21 bits)."